O Scale Grade Question

[Anonymous]

I currently have a RailKing train with about 4-5 cars going around the room by the ceiling on a shelf.  I want to bring it down to a large table in the other room and put a more elaborate layout.  My question is what is the safest grade but highest possible that I can use to go to the table?  I plan on putting a switching yard on it as well and I want to be able to get the train back up to the ceiling layout in the other room.  Thanks in advance.

[Buckeye Riveter]

First I am going to make some assumptions, so you can get an idea of your problem.

1. Assume the current ceiling shelf is about 7 feet above the floor.

2. Assume the table is about 30" (2' 6") above the floor.

3. The drop to the table is then about 4' 6". WOW!!!

Uing a:

1% Grade, you would need 433 lineal feet of track to make the drop.

2% Grade, you would need 217 lineal feet of track to make the drop.

3% Grade, you would need 144  lineal feet of track to make the drop.

FYI, Grade = RISE/RUN

Can you do a higher grade?  Can you control a speeding train going down a grade and maybe through a curve?  Can your engines pull up the grade? 

Good luck.

[jefelectric]

The only practical way that I can see this is possible would be a spiral like the HO guys use on their two level layouts.  The problem is that in O gauge the smallest practical diameter would be O72.  If you allow 6" per spiral, which provides for 5" clearance and 1" of structure, you would have about 2.6% grade.  This is still pretty steep.

[Anonymous]

jefelectric --- am going to keep an eye on this thread ... that range of grade to get that high and back should be a wonder in itself --huh ? when I read his initial post I said to myself  " I have to see this design --- functioning " I think maybe a few spirals don't you ? Or a huge room with enormous turns ! If you get that working please post some pics !!!

[mickey4479]

The frame work for the spiral structure using 072 track would be a minimum of 6.5 feet wide.  Considering the number of spirals previously calculated and the linear feet required for a 3% grade using lets say atlas fixed 072 curves you are looking at a lot of $ for just the spiral.  If It was me I would consider something else, but let us know what you do and how it goes, please.

[Anonymous]

I plan to go through a total of 3-4 rooms to make this happen then end up doing a mountian spiral effect for what is left.  Trying to stay at 4% grade.  Going to take me a bit to do :) I will let you know.

[Wes Whitmore]

This is probably very house specific.  Doors would have to be hung at least a foot from a corner, rooms would need to have no windows, the rooms would really be better off being small.  These are all things that I don't have in my basement.  I have no way to get a 7' high track down to even 4ft off the ground.  I just gave in and decided that I need to buy another train and just put that on the layout.

Wes

[kblester]

Would it be possible to build a vertical transfer table (elevator) long enough to hold the lenght of the train? You could bring it down to table level and have it align with a siding on the main table. Perhaps it could be hidden in a table to ceiling mountain or cliffside? It would not take much depth, only lenght.

Just a thought. Regards, Ken

[Anonymous]

I plan to go through a total of 3-4 rooms to make this happen then end up doing a mountian spiral effect for what is left.  Trying to stay at 4% grade.  Going to take me a bit to do :) I will let you know.

If you are going with a 4% grade, you will need to use TMCC or DCS so you can run trains with a leading and trailing engine.  I'm not sure I would go 4% that is steep for such a long run.  If you do this I would recommend a gradual decent where you go down a bit, run straight, down a bit, run straight, etc.  This reduces the wear on the engine and reduces the overall speed of the train.

I have a test track setup in the basement with a 5% grade (using the FasTrack graduated and elevated trestles), the trains really pickup a bit of speed.  I don't own any diesels, just steamers right now, but I think a latchup would be better for controling decending speed, but don't have a means to test this.

[Anonymous]

Would it be possible to build a vertical transfer table (elevator) long enough to hold the lenght of the train? You could bring it down to table level and have it align with a siding on the main table. Perhaps it could be hidden in a table to ceiling mountain or cliffside? It would not take much depth, only lenght.

Just a thought. Regards, Ken

That would be pretty cool!  The problem here is you have to ensure your engines only run forward or you could end up with a mess!  Also you have to make certain your pullies are in perfect sync or again a mess!

For me this would be impractical since many of my trains will be in excess of 8ft in length.

But an interesting suggestion!

[Wes Whitmore]

By sync, do you mean that all the pullies stop at the exact same time when it reaches the other track section?  Couldn't you just do this with a wedge and a pin that is attached to the moving platform.  As it moves up, the pin enters into the wedge and the pin is guided to the point of the wedge, bringing it all aligned?  If you have a pin on each corner, it would stop pretty consistantly when all 4 pins bottom out on the wedge's point.  I saw someone else do this on an elevator a couple of weeks ago.  Still, 8ft is a long elevator.
Wes

[lionelsoni]

There has been extensive discussion of this idea in the past:

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/456572/ShowPost.aspx

[Boyd]

Maybe Lionel or someone should make a caboose with controllable brakes via TMC. It also could have rubber tires on the wheels like engines do,,  or could have magnetraction wheels. If not TMC, then maybe R.C. I remember an article in MR or CTT where someone modified a caboose with a ball bearing that rolled foreward on a brass tab that I think rubbed against one of the axles. Or some kind of angle activated switch could trigger the brakes.

 

[jimhaleyscomet]

In the following topic I lay out a different approach (steap grade, smaller helix circle).  Just thought you might be interested.

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/991878/ShowPost.aspx

Jim H