Quicky review of MTH 20-2201-1 FM Trainmaster

[bibeaud]

I just had Shawn Chronister (www.shawnstrains.com) upgrade my K-Line scale Lackawanna FM Trainmaster to PS2.  The cost was very reasonable and I was extremely satisfied with the additional work Shawn did.  He upgraded my fan driven smoke unit and replaced the worn traction tires.  This is still an option for you after you switch out the two engine shells.

Originally, I had planned to upgrade the unit myself to TMCC w/ EOB from TAS, except they did not have a FM Trainmaster railsounds board.  The Electric Railroad also did not have a sound commander that produced the Trainmaster sounds.

I could have purchased from my LHS a Erie-Lackawanna Trainmaster but I wanted it to just be Lackawanna (go figure).

[Deputy]

Sounds good Dep.  I have found out like you that conversions don't pay unless it is something that is not available and you really want to keep the engine.

Yep. I just treat the Proto 1 stuff as non-TMCC and it's no sweat. I WILL convert the Proto 1 battery to one of those battery eliminator devices though.

[jefelectric]

John: Actually I found an alternative that is almost identical in cost to the conversion process. I can get an MTH Proto 2 Pennsylvania FM Trainmaster for $299 (or less if I shop around. $299 is full retail.). I can swap the body from my Jersey Central FM onto the Penn FM frame and presto...instant Proto 2. Then I can paint over the Pennsylvania stuff on the FM body with Brunswick Green and redecal it for Jersey Central. That way I'll have TWO bodies that can run on the Proto 2 frame and they are both JC

Dep

Sounds good Dep.  I have found out like you that conversions don't pay unless it is something that is not available and you really want to keep the engine.

[Deputy]

John: Actually I found an alternative that is almost identical in cost to the conversion process. I can get an MTH Proto 2 Pennsylvania FM Trainmaster for $299 (or less if I shop around. $299 is full retail.). I can swap the body from my Jersey Central FM onto the Penn FM frame and presto...instant Proto 2. Then I can paint over the Pennsylvania stuff on the FM body with Brunswick Green and redecal it for Jersey Central. That way I'll have TWO bodies that can run on the Proto 2 frame and they are both JC

Dep

[jefelectric]

TAS now does PS2 upgrades.  Mike Reagan told us at York that their conversions carry a one year factory waranty.  I know Don Baker had a conversion done by them.

http://www.tastudios.com/Proto%202.0%20links/proto_2_home.htm

Dep, This is a little closer for you also.

[Anonymous]

Hi, I have purchased a variety of MTH locomotives with Proto 1, and would like to upgrade to proto 2.  I have no idea on how to do this, or to find out (i.e. do you buy kits, can it be done at all, does it depend on the locomotive, etc).  Can someone point me in the right direction?  Thanks

CN

[phillyreading]

Dewey T,

Was not aware of the issues with up-dating PS-1 to PS-2 if possible.

How reliable are the Weaver locomotives? I was thinking about buying one about two years ago but bought a Williams loco instead.  I had a weight/coupler issue with the Weaver freight cars that I have so I decided to go with Williams.   A friend of mine in Stuart FL can get me a really good deal on new Williams trains, another reason why I went with Williams.

Lee F.

[Deputy]

Lee: I'll keep them in mind for the changeover. I have no choice about sending it out-of-state. NO MTH service stations in my state.

Dewey: Yep...the replacer solves ALL the discharging battery problems. I only have one Proto 1 loco but do have some non-Proto locos like Williams that I plan on upgrading to Proto 2. I am so happy with Proto 2 sounds, that TMCC and Railsounds, even Railsounds 5.0, don't interest me in the least.
I also MUCH prefer the thumbwheel to the "big red knob".

daan: Sounds good with the batteries.

Dep

[A&Y Ry]

Lee F.

For me installing TMCC would make more sense than Proto 2.0. But with the FM and a couple more Proto 1.0s and one Proto 2.0 [Berkshire] engines I will probably just run them conventional.

When Mike Wolf was in the developing stages of Proto 2.0 he announced that Proto 1.0 would definitely not be convertible to Proto 2.0. As a result I immediately had Phil Hull of T/A Studios convert 12 of my favorite Southern and N&W Proto 1.0 engines to TM/RS 4.0. I also converted one Sunset brass Mountain type, a Weaver brass Ps-4 and RS-3 and Lionel diecast 2-8-2 to TM/RS.

I buy engines by roadname rather than by who made or imported it. Except for recent Proto 2.0, I tend to have all the premier SRR, N&W and Clinchfield power produced by MTH, Atlas, K-Line, Weaver and Lionel.

I don't like the ugly tether or battery features of my upgraded Proto 1.0s and the tether in non-Lionel TM engines but other features offset, in particular having the the roadname in the engine class I want, plus I have all the engines I need.

 

 

 

[daan]

daan: Here's the detailed info on replacing the MTH battery with nimh or nicad. BE CAREFUL! Some nicad and nimh batteries may not supply adequate power!!!  

http://www.rmdtoytrains.org/TipsTechniques/Protosounds_Battery_Issues.pdf

and here:

http://www.rmdtoytrains.org/TipsTechniques/Protosounds_Battery_Maintenance.pdf

Dep 

 

Thanx Dep, I knew that part. It needs to be 8.4 volts at least. But here in Holland we can't get 7.2 volt block batteries. I asked about that and they don't sell them because it's too different from a 9 volt black battery. (also RC cars don't work with a 7.2 volts battery) The ones I have installed are 8.4 volts, 160mAh and are doing fine. But indeed something to be carefull about!!

[A&Y Ry]

Thanks for the information Dep. I believe the battery replacer is the way to go.

[phillyreading]

Have you tried asking the guys at Ready To Roll in Miami FL about updating your FM Trainmaster to DCS?  They mainly work on MTH products, I know it is out of state for you but sometimes you need to go the long haul.    www.readytorolltrains.com

There might be other sources but I am not sure right now.

Lee F.

[Deputy]

daan: Here's the detailed info on replacing the MTH battery with nimh or nicad. BE CAREFUL! Some nicad and nimh batteries may not supply adequate power!!!  

http://www.rmdtoytrains.org/TipsTechniques/Protosounds_Battery_Issues.pdf

and here:

http://www.rmdtoytrains.org/TipsTechniques/Protosounds_Battery_Maintenance.pdf

Dep 

 

[daan]

That's a good tip, thanks. I'll try and find those electronic batteries here in europe. Another, much better alternative for the original 150mA/h nicad battery is a 160ma/h Nimh battery. They don't have a charge memory and last also a lot longer then any nicad battery. (in my PS1 loco's are Nimh batteries and even after 2 years of operation, with sometimes half a year without any use, they still work great.)

[Deputy]

Dewey,
         You have two ways you can go. #1 buy an MTH replacement battery for $10. You can get one here:

http://store.trainz.com/Items/1752633933?

Or buy a battery replacer where you will NEVER have to worry about a battery going dead and screwing things up again. You can get them here:

http://www.jandwelectronics.com/

I plan on getting those battery replacers for ALL my locos that have rechargeable batteries in them. They aren't cheap, but neither is having the battery going dead and then scrambling the sound chip. A problem present on Proto 1 locos.

Dep

[A&Y Ry]

Just took my Proto 1.0 Trainmaster [Southern] down from the railrax---I haven't run it in ten years or more.[I had forgotten how attractive the phillips head screw is in the nose]

What type battery do I need to buy-----I'm sure its dead--no horn --but cab chatter in neutral is plain.

Tried to operate it via a TPC/Comm Base/Cab 1 but it stays in neutral. Operates just fine direct from old ZW, neutral--forward--neutral--reverse.  

[Deputy]

Thanks for the info Paul. I gotta drag it back out and test it again before I take down the Christmas layout. But I'm still gonna convert to Proto 2. I like that thumbwheel control

Dep

[pbjwilson]

 Also push the bell button more then 4 seconds when driving and the next stop will produce station sounds or freight yard sounds with crew chatter etc. Push direction button to switch through the varaity of sounds until the train moves again.

Dep,

I have a Trainmaster and the crew sounds are limited but understandable. Daans description of the automatic activation of the crew talk is right on the money. It works very well.

 

[Deputy]

Sounds like a nice engine - how does it pull?

Given your professional experience, I am glad to see you are wary of my Law...

LOL Murph...I been bit in the butt more than once by your law

I haven't hooked it up to any rolling stock yet, but I suspect it has plenty of pulling power. With two flywheel motors and a weight of almost 5 pounds, it should have plenty of oomph to yank a long string of cars. The FMs, no matter who makes them, are known for being good performers.

Dep

[cnw1995]

Sounds like a nice engine - how does it pull?

Given your professional experience, I am glad to see you are wary of my Law...

[Deputy]

The whistle on my new Mikado seems to have a mind of it's own. It often sounds AFTER I have let off on the button. It's actually easier for me to blow a sequence with the Proto 1 than with the Mikado, as long as they aren't short blasts. Again...let me know what you think about the Lionel setup. Perhaps they made dramatic improvements with the Railsounds 5 system.

Dep 

[daan]

As long as you don't want to reprogram the engine the button pushing is fairly simple in my opinion, but if you're used to DCS or TMCC then probably it is a hassle. The only big problem I found on these units is that you need to switch to neutral for uncoupling. On a straight track I stop, go to neutral, uncouple, and want to drive further, but the engine backs up (as it's supposed to) and hooks back on.. Being able to uncouple on the flight is a lot easier.

Another thing is the slow reaction of the horn on the horn button, making it impossible to blow sequences. I'm curious how RS will be on that.

[Deputy]

Hi Daan,
           That's great news that crew chatter is understandable!!!! I had heard that Proto 1 wasn't that way. I saw all the button-pushing that's involved with activating the different options. That, plus the lack of DCS has me anxious to convert to Proto 2. Not sure when I'll be doing it though. I'll be sending it out for the conversion. Not something I want to tackle and there are no hobby shops in my state that work on MTH. Please let me know what you think of the Lionel Railsounds. Note that Lionel uses different versions of it. Evidently the newest version is Railsounds 5 and the CrewTalk is understandable. It is only available on their very high end locos. I have a new NYC Mikado and it has CrewTalk, but it's the older version and it sounds like "gobble-gobble" when they say anything.

Dep
P.S. If I can get the old Proto 1 board when they do the upgrade you are welcome to it!

[daan]

Crew chatter is activated by leaving the engine in neutral, but powered. It's triggered now and then and it's clear and understandable. To change it to proto 2, be sure to ask if the same couplers can be used, they usually ship the proto 2 units with new coilcouplers.

The coupler is activated by powering up above 8 volts in neutral. You will hear a small click. Then press the horn burron once, you'll hear a hish from the brakeline. Again the horn and a clunck sound is heard with the opening of the coupler. Also push the bell button more then 4 seconds when driving and the next stop will produce station sounds or freight yard sounds with crew chatter etc. Push direction button to switch through the varaity of sounds until the train moves again.

You'll see, it's simple and easy to use with a bit of knowhow and it's sounds are great. (BTW, if you want to get rid of the proto1 board.. )

For me my first Lionel railsound machine is on it's way, I can soon see how it sounds in comparison to the MTH machines..

[Deputy]

Hi All,
       Just took delivery of this loco and I thought I'd post some feedback on it. This is a Jersey Central FM Trainmaster with Proto 1. It is in their Premier line. I have to admit, after seeing so much negative comments about the Proto 1 system, I was a bit worried about how it would sound. The seller had already installed a new battery and tested it, so function wasn't that big a worry. After taking off the protective foam from the trucks, I put it on the track. Proto 1 means no DCS, so I cranked up the power to 5 volts. Everything lit up as it's supposed to. Very nice strobe light effect on the headlight. The engine sounds sounded okay to me....not as good as Proto 2, but definitely agreeable to the ear. A few more volts and she eased forward. No jerky movement like I experienced with the Lionel FM, just a smooth takeoff. As I increased the throttle the engine sounds got louder. A rapid decrease in the throttle produced the break sounds. Very cool. At zero throttle the battery kicked in and shut down the engine. The horn and bell sounded pretty nice. Again, not as good as Proto 2, but plenty loud and realistic. I didn't activate the crew chatter. Reading the instructions (a first for me), it's similar to Lionel's CrewTalk in the cheaper versions...unintelligible. No sweat. I plan on a full Proto 2 upgrade on the loco anyway.
Overall I was quite pleased with Proto 1. Only change I would make if I kept it this way is to install a J&W battery replacement. I am fully aquainted with Mr. Murphy and the Murphy Factor.
But since almost all of my locos are set up for DCS (or will be eventually), Proto 2 is the way to go for me.

Dep