Ok, so I'm fired up to start my shelf layout. I've decided to go down 2 walls, loop around behind the scenes..so the train comes back. I'm then going to do a "gasp" HO layout as well. The Lionel will be a nice touch to the room. But after the hobby store trip, I have several questions:
1. I have the Cab-1 remote controller, the command base, and my TW transformer. Is anything else needed to run conventional locomotives (post war)? Is there a way to convert post war to run TMCC?
2. Again, I was going to use the metal shelving brackets spaced out and secured on every stud area. When I mentioned this to the hobby guy, he shook his head, and talked about 2x4's on the wall, under the plywood base..and a diagnoal brace as well. Ok, it's really solid..but I'm not going to be walking on the darn thing. I don't want a monstrocity along the wall! But if those cheap metal hangers won't cut it...
3.Turn radius: I just have 31" radius curves (is that correct..the normal everyday curves). It works well for my 675. If I want to upgrade to a bigger diesel engine (like an F-3), they should be correct too, right? Now, if I choose to get an SD 60 or SD 90..then I'll need O-72? So should I just get some O-72 radius curves now and put them in?
4. And when I mentioned using the pink foam as a base for insulation..the guy scrinkled up his nose. Of course he wanted to sell me the pre-made rubber stuff that attaches to the track. Or suggested cork. Now, being the salesman, he showed me the Atlas and Gargraves track..which looks a lot better! But, I have standard tubular track. I've seen ceiling tile used...and have heard about the pink insulation. The pink insulation got me to thinking about a. how to secure the track to it, and b. how do you decorate over it? Maybe just getting some woodland scenics stuff as insulator?
That's it for now..I'm planning on painting the room and marking off the lines for the plywood and hanger locations over the next couple days...
How you support the layout depends a lot on how far it extends from the wall. How far is that?
The "radius" numbers you quote are actually the diameter to the outsides of the ties. The actual radius of O31 (to the center rail) is about 14 inches.
Bob Nelson
A steel bracket with a diagonal brace should be okay. I would worry a little about this kind of bracket:
http://www.doityourself.com/invt/018205209128
Mounting the brackets over the studs is of course important. But the drywall can compress with time and let the thing sag. A trick I've used is to make a hole in the drywall big enough to put in a stack of washers to provide a solid spacer between the bracket and the stud.
With 16-inch stud spacing, 1/2-inch plywood shouldn't need any framing. If you have any long spans between brackets, I recommend bolting steel angle underneath for stiffening. Cut the angle a little shorter than the span and bolt it underneath the plywood with short carriage bolts. You can put the bolt heads under the track to hide them.
This is 13" from the wall, and in hindsight, I could have used an extra inch or so.
I used ceiling tiles over the plywood and would recommend wood braces bolted to the wall. Further, I am using cork roadbed beneath the tubular track. This combination quiets things down quite a bit.
Lastly, I have filled in the area around the cork with sculpt-a-mold to bring the track level lower to the ground, which should minimize the appearance of grossly elevated track. I may also provide more noise insulation.
Considering only the track (or more precisely the loading gauge) and not any scenery, three inches is plenty for each straight track. American prototypes are 10'8 wide; so, except for things like crane cars with protruding cranks, scale stock should be no wider than 2 2/3 inches. My yard tracks are 2 7/8 inches apart on centers.
The problem comes when the track curves away from the wall, as at the inside corners of the room. Then the ends of the cars and locomotives swing toward the wall and need much more clearance. The usual accommodation for this is to put the entire straight track farther from the wall and the tracks farther apart.
My favorite alternate to wide-spaced track is "spiral" curves. These curves start and end with track sections of a long radius, for example, O72. The entire curve is not O72 however. It transitions from O72 to something sharper, then back. You might use O72-O31-O72, which makes a complete 90-degree turn.
You might think that this takes up a lot of room at the corner; but it doesn't. Having the O72 sections at the ends has surprisingly little effect on the space used. In fact, when you consider that the corner track hugs the wall more tightly using the spiral, there is almost no difference. And this does not take into account the space saved along the sides of the room.
A narrow shelf is always going to be more robust than a wide one. Unless you want the width for its own sake (scenery), spiral curves are a neat way to reduce it. The trains also look good going through them, almost as if the entire curve were O72.
Frank,
I saw these pictures somewhere else and was curious as to what the numbers meant on the rock wall?
.
BigJim wrote:Frank,I saw these pictures somewhere else and was curious as to what the numbers meant on the rock wall?
The warehouse is abandoned and has space for rent - that's the number you call to rent it.
a throw back to when telephone numbers started with letters.
Yallean
Check out the white or black enameled, 1/8" flat bar constructed "Maxibrackets" at Home Depot or Lowe's. In 1992 I used modified/strengthened decorative wooden brackets under my shelves [3 trk is 14-1/2" wide, 2 trk is 10-1/2"]. However, I later helped several O-gaugers who used the "Maxibrackets" effectively [strength and appearance] in building a shelf RR placed just above their door/window casing in a spare bedroom, Den,etc.
Several of these shelf RRs were being built right after MTH's 1994 issue of the CC&O and UP Challlenger engines and everyone wanted wide curves in the room corners to accommodate the big 4-6-6-4. As a result and including economical use of 3/4" plywood, we made the dual track straight-a-ways 11-3/4" wide [yielded four straight roadbed cuts per 4x8 sheet] and cut two 4x4 sections per sheet for the corners. On these 4x4 sections we made a front edge "curve cut" of approximately 072 which blended with the 11-3/4" straight sections front edge. (three 4x8 sheets needed for a 14'x16' room for example).
There are a couple of things to consider when using a 3/4"x4x4 plywood corner section: [1] with the dual track o89 and 078 curves we used, you get a 31"-32" diagonal dimension from corner to front curve cut and a "mezzanie" overhang effect in the corners even after making the 072 curve cut. That didn't bother anyone I worked with but it might some. It really pulls in the corners of a 14"x16" room. [2] the 4x4 section provides the structural strength needed to span a corner and it it is strong enough to be cantilever-supported with 16" Maxibrackets(if you are conservative you can place a 20-24" bracket diagonally from in the corner).
[3] the 4x4 corner section enabled us to have an elevated rear flextrack curve of 089 and a shelf surface level track curve of 078. The idea is to design GarGraves flextrack curves to clear wallbuilding flats or half-trees if one desires them and enable clearance between tracks in the curves for an articulated engine passing an 80' [20"] passenger car.
[4] you are only going to join 4x4 corner section to straight section over a stud-mounted bracket on one wall of the of the corner section. No sweat--the strength of 3/4" plywood enables you to ignore that one joint per corner section and simply attach some small mending plates on the roadbed top in space where track is not installed. The mending plates keep the edges even if needed--a a support bracket will be on a nearby stud anyway.
[in a room with drywall ceiling and wallboard, in addition to using foam,cellotex,etc, under the track, several people applied it to the wall and ceiling beside and above the shelf RR to reduce sound,- ---you are less than 12" from the ceiling in an 8' ceiling-ed room. If you elevate the rear track for better floor-to-shelf line-of-sight viewing by little folks the ceiling is only about 7-1/2" above the rails] .
Just one way of doing it while enabling wide curve arcs!
lionelsoni wrote: A steel bracket with a diagonal brace should be okay. I would worry a little about this kind of bracket:http://www.doityourself.com/invt/018205209128
LOL..this is the bracket I was thinking of using actually lol...
Perhaps these brackets?
http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/077355/077355009927md.jpg
That's what I was looking at for support.
I figure 3 plywood sheets for the shelving..one more for the loops I want to build..some 1x2's for support of the loops. I'll take some pics of the room and show you the plan, etc.
yallaen:
Here's an alternative if it is of any use. I've simplified my description somewhat and left out how I tackled gaps over windows and doors but.....
Faced with space restrictions I built my Plate Rail Central in our den 6 1/2' high on the wall. While the boss/landlord/wife was in total agreement with my plans I was told to make it as esthetically pleasing as possible. Most of the support for the double track roadbed is on a shelf made of 6" wide 1/2" plywood finished off on the bottom with 5" wide 45 degree angle cove moulding. Inside this triangular structure is horizonally mounted 2" X 2"'s screwed to the wall joists that really give the support needed for the shelf and the weight they will carry. In this way I eliminated unsightly brackets.
On top of this I screwed 8 1/2" wide 1/2" plywood roadbed letting it overhang the shelf underneath by about 3". This gave me ample width for double track running although you are left with nearly no room for scenery on the straights other than track ballasting and some scrub in between tracks. I spaced this roadbed base about 3/4" away from the wall, leaving a trough to lay wiring and keep it relatively hidden. The reasoning behind the top roadbed besides the extra width is that if ( heaven forbid!) you needed to remove the layout it can come down without disturbing the decorative shelf.
The corner roadbed was constructed much like has been suggested...by using a wide piece of plywood to span the corner gap. I saved on material here by initially cutting a 2' X 4' sheet then cutting it to fit the corner on a 45 degree. This leaves a small triagular gap in the corner that can be easily filled with a scrap piece of plywood or left open as I have. The former would make the whole assembly stronger but I found it wasn't needed. This gave me room enough to comfortably fit both inner and outer O72 curves. I simply start the inner curve into the corner a few inches sooner then the outer curve.
I widened out the layout on one wall to handle a 4 track width by supporting the roadbed with pre made kitchen cupboard assemblies found at Home Depot. This gives me ample support, added storage space for trains and with their natural maple finish it ties in nicely with the clear finished plywood roadbed that is vissible on the underside. Here is where really secure mounting is important. "L" brackets mounted to the top of the cupboard assemblies then screwed to the wall studs helps a lot.
What would I have done different? As suggested I would have raised the outside roadbed for better vissiblity of the trains running back there. I would definitely do everything I could to lessen roadbed noise and I just might go back and increase the thickness of the cork I have under the track. And BTW, invest in a 2 step aluminum painters ladder....yer gonna need it! All in all the end result has worked out fine for me without any major problems and it looks just about as good as one can hope for.
Bruce Webster
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