Can't decide which to use MTH Z-4000 or the Lionel ZW?

[Ralph]

Hi, my name is Ralph, I psoted this on model railroader and got a good suggestion to post it here for better response. I am looking for some advice or pros and cons of either transformer. My layout out will be about 12'x28'. Also I will be using Atlas O track and I have alot of big engines which are mostly MTH. Plus I am planing tu run the MTH DCS. I have heard some good and bad things about both. I am just looking for a little more info from people that are currently using either transformer. So any advice or experience with either will greatly be appreciated, becasue I am just having hard time trying to decide which to use.

 

 

 

 

                                           Thanks Ralph

[msacco]

Ralph,

If you're going to run DCS and mostly MTH engines with proto2, I would go with the z4000 since it's a MTH product as well.

  I run mostly postwar and non TMCC engines, although I do own one TMCC engine. For me the new ZW was the way to go. It has great flexibilitly with power and runs conventional via remote very well.

  I'm pretty sure you would have no problems running DCS with the new Zw but I hopefully someone will chime in. I know the new zw is chopped sinewave and z4000 is not. I don't know how this affects PS2 and again hopefully someone will chime in.

 Hope this helps.

MIke S.

[chuck]

If you are running primarily PS-2 locomotives and will be using DCS, neither.  You can use PowerHouse bricks to feed the DCS TIU.  Bricks are a lot cheaper than transformers.

A postwar ZW can handle up to 720 watts of power, a Z-4000 can output a max 360 watts (to the track).  Z-4000 has easy programming support for PS-1 loco's. 

[Anonymous]

If you are running primarily PS-2 locomotives and will be using DCS, neither.  You can use PowerHouse bricks to feed the DCS TIU.  Bricks are a lot cheaper than transformers.

A postwar ZW can handle up to 720 watts of power, a Z-4000 can output a max 360 watts (to the track).  Z-4000 has easy programming support for PS-1 loco's. 

Actually Postwar ZW are rated at 275watts, not 720.  The 720 is achieved using a Modern ZW with 4 180-watt powerhouses.

[chuck]

Sorry, meant Modern ZW.  It can handle up to four 180 watt bricks.

[Deputy]

I use the Z-4000 and have had no problems with it with both TMCC and DCS locos as well as conventional locos. If you are going to run ANY conventional locos in the future, you are going to need a some kind of conventional throttle and not just a power block. Just something to think about

As far as pros and cons...I really can't think of any for either one. It's more personal preference than anything else. 

Dep

[chuck]

"If you are going to run ANY conventional locos in the future"

 A TIU has two variable output channels. You can control conventional loco's with the TIU and the DCS remote. If you want a conventional throttle you will need a ZW or a Z-4000. If you own mostly command equipped loco's, the need for a conventional throttle diminishes greatly.

[Anonymous]

I use the Z-4000 and have had no problems with it with both TMCC and DCS locos as well as conventional locos. If you are going to run ANY conventional locos in the future, you are going to need a some kind of conventional throttle and not just a power block. Just something to think about

As far as pros and cons...I really can't think of any for either one. It's more personal preference than anything else. 

Dep

I have a Modern ZW and I can control my conventional engines just fine with my CAB-1... is this another 'feature' of DCS?

[chuck]

A modern ZW will allow you to control the output to the track remotely, up to four seperate blocks.  You can also buy a remote commander for a Z-4000 for remote throttle control (independant of DCS). 

Z-4000 is a nice transformer with a lot of nice features, so is a ZW.  Z-4000 has an amp and volt meter built in and has macro button's to support conventional programming of PS-1 and PS-2 loco's.  It's physically large and only has two variable tap outputs.  Z-4000 requires a Remote Commander set to support remote throttle without DCS.  New ZW can handle four variable taps and 180 watts out of each one.  You need a CAB-1 and Command Base to do remote throttle operation.  If you are running predominantly in a command mode, both are overkill.  They go for around $360-$380.  PowerHouse bricks go for around $80 each and each one will provide 180 watts of power.  If you already have a DCS Remote and TIU, I'd look real hard at using bricks to supply raw power.

[johnandjulie13]

Chuck:

Your reasoning is articulate and solid.  However...there are some of us who still like using a throttle handle to control conventional engines.  I too, have been debating whether to go with the MTH or Lionel transformer.  I like that the MTH has a built in voltage/amperage readout.  I also like the looks of the Lionel ZW.  I have to make a decision soon...

Regards,

John O

[Ralph]

Thanks for all the responses, It's a real help to hear these things from other people. One more question, Who makes  the powerhouse blocks? Thanks for all the input, Ralph

[willpick]

Ralph, I'm in the same situation as you. I use Atlas O track, my engines are mostly MTH,and I had to decide which transformer to buy. I got the Z4000 instead of the new ZW mainly because i have some PS1 engines, and i can program the PS1 engines with the Z4000. If you  are going to run more than 2 loops, i suggest that you buy 2 of the 180 watt Lionel powerhouse transformers and use them to help power the the TIU(variable channels). Also, the Z4000 has 2 accessory outputs-(14V & 10V) that can run most accessories, as long as you don't exceed 3 amps draw.

HTH!

[Ralph]

Thanks for the info.

[Swipesy]

I have one Lionel train running strickly in conventional on a inner layout and 5 MTH PS2 running on a DCS.  The layout is powered by a new ZW with two 180 watt bricks.  The only issue I had was that with all the accessory buildings and two set of 6 car passenger cars and 3 PS2 engines and the conventional engine running at the same time the transformer would shut down completely.  Obviously pulling way too many amps.  So I took all the building accessories off the ZW and run them through a stanalone MTH brick.  No more problems although the lights cannot be adjusted for brightness this way.

[chuck]

Your ZW can accept two additional brick to bring the power output to 720 watts.

[Swipesy]

Yes I knew that but the MTH brick was half the cost so I went that direction.  It also let me isolate some of the wires.

[dbaker48]

Ralph,

I have the new ZW and I had the same question you do.  I finally made my decision base on the fact I also had an old ZW and bought the new one just so they would look alike on my layout.  I wish I would have bought the Z4000.  that is the way I would go if I could do it over. 

[alexweiihman]

take the z4000, the zw requirs you buying powerblock transformers, youed think lionel could fit the transformer in the zw

 

[Anonymous]

I would go with the Z-4000, if you can find one. I have been havin a tough time finding one in my area. I hope to find one somewhere soon. The perfect transformer to run my PS1 and 2 engines and they cant be found anywhere lol.

[chuck]

"youed think lionel could fit the transformer in the zw"

 

Z-4000's foot print is about twice that of a ZW.  This has been my biggest issue with the 4000, physical size.  It eats up a lot of real estate, especialy when you factor in you only get 360 watts track power and two varaible taps.

[RR Redneck]

Lionel ZW is all the transformer you will ever need. LOL

[Anonymous]

 Was going to post this very same question and thought I'd browse the forum first ... glad I did . Gave my son my older ZW and he won't give it back .... wonder why ?  --- LOL  But now have found out lionel has smoothed the sine wave problem with the new bricks . Before plunking down another wad of hundred dollar bills I wanted to see some actual expert useage advice . Stopped running engines and only collected them for a couple years . Man I missed out on all the fun ! Now I've got to start all over on power and am glad this forum is here . I used to have to just buy and hope my decision was best . They should have put something more into the main controller ... at least 1 power output with at least an accessory output . That part burns me ....     Bought the Z-4000 days after this post ... blows the ZW away !

[Deputy]

"youed think lionel could fit the transformer in the zw"

 

Z-4000's foot print is about twice that of a ZW.  This has been my biggest issue with the 4000, physical size.  It eats up a lot of real estate, especialy when you factor in you only get 360 watts track power and two varaible taps.

Yep...and when you factor in the seperate power packs needed to RUN the new ZW...you have even more space taken up.

Dep

[chuck]

"Yep...and when you factor in the seperate power packs needed to RUN the new ZW...you have even more space taken up."

Yes, under the table, out of the way, out of sight. 

[Deputy]

"Yep...and when you factor in the seperate power packs needed to RUN the new ZW...you have even more space taken up."

Yes, under the table, out of the way, out of sight. 

"It eats up a lot of real estate"...looks like you found some real estate

Dep

[nblum]

If you primarily have PS1 and PS2 locos, and no TMCC locos, and you have no need for the capability of 760 watts of power from one transformer, then the Z4000 is the obvious choice. In general operating the locomotives of the manufacturer with their power source works most seamlessly in three rail O gauge, IMO.

[Anonymous]

 Yea and another thing DEP --- see i'll need at least one or two  switch and accessory controllers ... plus add on all the power supplies and lionel powermaster remote control units .... plus actvater units infrared ... and the ZW with at least 2 powermaster supplies GEEZ ! Maybe I should have just stuck with my old whistle - smokin engines ! I may be eyeing up a new and seperate breaker box also I guess I should ...... 4 times more floor space ...... all 072 radius curves ... Thinking of putting in a sound system in the room for playing freight yard sounds " backround sounds also " recorded . I don't know if this old boy is gonna live long enough ... LOL  My wife told me yesterday if I take anymore of the house for myself she's leaving ... no worry though we've been married 36 years . Man I have'nt even begun to get new signals and bridges ! Weeks behind on finishing my detailing and rolling stock .... let alone the layout !

[Deputy]

ROFL Just! I'm in the same boxcar as you. But I am too addicted to the new sounds and doodads on the new locos to ever want any of the old stuff (except for my S2 turbines). I have so many boxes in my wife's computer room that she has to walk sideways to get into it.
Once the Christmas tree comes down I will be moving everything into my rec room where I have total domain.

Dep

 

[Anonymous]

 WOW  ! Just went to a guy's house who has the new MTH Z-4000 transformer ! What a sweet piece of engineering . Was going down to the local hobby store next morning and bring home a new ZW with added on power packs --- what a mistake that would have been !  My brother-in-law said go to his buddy's house and check one out in person before buying the new ZW and am I glad I did . Complete digital readouts --- $200.00 lionel add on option --- cooling fan --- none in the ZW ---- smooth is not the word on the controls ! Plus 400 thumpin watts and " OUTPUTS " for accessories ---- new ZW has none ! You can put a low cost adapter cable for tmc on her . If anyone else reads this trying to decide between the two .... I've seen them both ... tried them both ... researched and tested both supplies/transformers and the Z-4000 buries the ZW .  Ordered one the next morning . I thought I was in the cockpit of  a 747 ---  LOL      Bows all around for MTH on those babies !

[Anonymous]

 Chuck --- a ZW with all those power bricks and wires will take up alot more room than a Z-4000 and at $90.00 a whack for extra bricks and accesory pack you'll have over $650.00 in power supply ! And add on the digital readouts and accessory pack --- you're looking at around  $900.00 for the ZW equipped with what the Z-4000 has built in excluding the extra 2 bricks . For the same features and 400 watts in the MTH and only 360 in the ZW which you'd have to add $280.00 to the ZW for the digital readout package and buy an accessory transformer .... the new ZW can't come close . Sorry the MTH has better internals also ....