Scenery: Ballasting Track

[vwrick]

Just put down my first section of ballast - a little annoying but tolerable.  My big problems are twofold:  cleaning the residual matte medium from the GarGraves track and ballasting the switches (general thoughts re ballasting around them as well as a slight problem with the matte medium).  Re the matte medium on the track:  I don't mind scrubbing the outside rails, but I don't want to polish off the black finish on the GarGraves middle rail - any suggestions re a solvent to remove the residual matte medium (or failing that, a conductive finish to touch up the third rail)?

Re switches:  despite my best efforts to be careful, a small amount of the matte medium wicked into the switch points and has made it just slightly sluggish - enough so that the z-stuff switch machine is not moving the turnout reliably.  Again, any thoughts on a solvent to clean this out; also, any suggestions on ballasting switches in general?  I find it amusing that all the articles and videos cover the ballasting of straight sections of track and ignore the ballasting around switches where I believe we novices could most use some detailed advice.  Thanks!

 

[wrmcclellan]

wvrick,

Welcome to track ballasting 101. I made the same mistake and there is no easy solution.

I also used matte medium for my ballast and I did not dillute it enough. Afterwards I went with 1-4  (matte medium to water) or less afterwards and then I carefully cleaned the rails a couple of times of the matte meduim solution before it dried. Make sure you use clean rags and rinse them often or the rag becomes a source of more matte medium. Afterwards a damp rag will clean the rest after it has dried.

As for the areas you now have with too much matte medium. I used a wet rag with some success. Then I followed with scrubbing the rail tops with some laquer thinner (As we always caution - make sure you have adequate ventilation and be very careful with highly flammable substances) to cut the rest of the residue off. The laquer thinner does not work well if the matte medium is built up very much.

The cleanup after my mistake was not easy to do and was very tedious.

RE: Switches

This occured on our club layout when a member did not realize you cannot put the ballast fixing solution into the switch rails and points area. More bad news. The switches will not be easy to fix. Use some water to dissolve the matte medium and a blow dryer and work the switch until it dries to loosen it up. We had to do this several times. We also tried silicon sprays and dry graphite (be careful with the graphite - it is conductive) to keep the switch from seizing up later. This happens as humidity fluctuates.

[vwrick]

Thanks for the advice - the switch in question moves well to my finger but is unreliable with the switch motor - it must be VERY low torque.  I will try some laquer thinner (carefully) on the rails later; the switch will take a little more work.  The funny thing is that almost all the articles (and a video) say something like "you can clean the track later after the ballast is secure" - not very good gouge.  A small mistake area but it really is frustrating - I plan to be a lot more careful in the next stage.  Again, thanks for the hints. 

[ChiefEagles]

Thanks Roy.  I will be doing track ballasting in the near future.

[Anonymous]

I started with matte medium but the stuff did not flow down into the ballast, so I had a thin sticky coating over loose ballast. Awful; it crumbled to the touch and stuck to everything.

I ended up switched to diluted (1 for 1, two drops of detergent) white glue with much better results. Also much less tedious because I did not have to keep swabbing matte off of the rails.

[Anonymous]

I started with matte medium but the stuff did not flow down into the ballast, so I had a thin sticky coating over loose ballast. Awful; it crumbled to the touch and stuck to everything.

I ended up switched to diluted (1 for 1, two drops of detergent) white glue with much better results. Also much less tedious because I did not have to keep swabbing matte off of the rails.

Always--and I do mean always--add a few drops of dishwashing liquid to your glue/water or matte medium/water mix before dispensing it on the ballast.  This makes the water "wetter," and helps it flow into the full depth of the applied ballast.

And, of course, it's a good idea--necessary, even--to mist the ballasted area you're going to glue with a atomizer of "wet water" before you even begin to apply the glue mix.  This further helps the glue mixture to penetrate.  I use an old perfume atomizer.  This "wet water" is just that, so won't harm or coat the rails (I still clean my track with track cleaner after a ballasted section has been glued and has dried). 

I use a large eyedropper to dispense the actual glue mix onto the ballast.  Doing it this way keeps any glue off the rails.  Takes a bit of time and patience, but this is the way model railroaders have been doing it for a great many years.  I would not spray the glue mix on the track, as one might do with other scenery areas, for example.  Use the eye dropper and just dispense the glue between the ties and rails.  Apply enough so it begins to seep out of the bottom edge of the roadbed.  This assures that it has penetrated fully.  It will look like crap when it's wet. but you'll never see the glue after it has dried.

Make sure that any trackside accessories are temporarily moved while you're ballasting; otherwise they may end up being glued in place. 

[luther_stanton]

I too have just finished my first attempt at ballasting a stretch of my layout. The results were a bit less than I expected, but it is acceptable for my first attempt.

The first thing I tried was chicken grit – on the advice of some postings here on the forum. I am using Atlas track. The chicken grit does not work – it was too big. It may work on Lionel tubular track as the ties are not as close together. I have also heard that there are different sizes of chicken grit. I went to a feed and seed in rural GA and asked for chicken grit – they only had one size.

I did not want to use some of the commercially available ballast as it is jexpensive. I ended up going with some stone material from Garden Ridge. It was in the dried flower section and is a yellow – white in color. It is somewhere in size between kitty litter and aquarium gravel. It is a little large for the Atlas tie spacing, but it is acceptable. I think it would work really well with Lionel tubular.

As I placed the ballast, I used the flat end of an X-Acto knife handle to tamp the ballast between the rails. A form of O Scale gandy dancing I guess.

I bought a gallon of white glue at Home Depot. I am using something close to a 50% mixture of white glue and water, leaning toward slightly more glue than water. I also added a few drops a dish washing liquid to about 10 oz of mixture. The mixture “balled up” on the gravel at first but soon ran into the gravel. It also found its way to ever wire hole in the sub road bed, so it is important to keep the carpet and floor under the layout covered to catch any spills.

I did try wetting everything with a water / dish washing mixture before the glue. The results were the same so I abandoned that.

I am using a hair dye mixing bottle to mix the glue and apply it. I found this at a local beauty supply place on a trip with my wife. It has a pointed screw top that allows me to dispense the glue / water mixture a few drops at a time. This allowed me to keep the glue off of the rails and between the ties. I was also careful around the switches, but a bit of mixture did get on the points and I had the same problem with the switch machine not fully throwing the switch. I cleaned the area with a knife and was luckily able to work the switch free. I will definitely be more careful in the switch areas next time. I used a paper towel to wipe any excess off of the rails – but will use Roy's suggestion of a wet rag next time.

After everything had dried (I allowed two days) I decided to run a small vacuum over the ballast to pick up any loose pieces. Unfortunately a lot more came up than I expected, however, I would rather have the vacuum find the loose ballast than an engine. It will be a simple matter to follow up on the next ballasting session to fill in those areas where the glue did not hold.

And so ends my first adventure in ballasting!

[Buckeye Riveter]

I really like my rubber ballast from Scenic Express.  Now don't take this to the bank, but several people have made the comment that they think the rubber ballast might deaden the track noise.

[Anonymous]

I use a large eyedropper to dispense the actual glue mix onto the ballast.  Doing it this way keeps any glue off the rails.  Takes a bit of time and patience, but this is the way model railroaders have been doing it for a great many years.  I would not spray the glue mix on the track, as one might do with other scenery areas, for example.  Use the eye dropper and just dispense the glue between the ties and rails.  Apply enough so it begins to seep out of the bottom edge of the roadbed.  This assures that it has penetrated fully.  It will look like crap when it's wet. but you'll never see the glue after it has dried.

WOW this post took me back MANY, MANY, MANY years.  Back in the mid-eighties a friend of mine and I were 'messing' around with a Backman HO set and wanted 'real' track, so we started ballasting between the rails and over the cork subroad bed.  We had a ton of problems until his mother (an RN) suggested using a syringe without the needle (since we were young she didn't think needles were a wise thing to let us play with).  The syringe worked wonderfully!

I have a nice stash of various sized syringes for just this purpose (if I have to go Gargraves on the large layout).

Another thing to try is a small baster (do not use a turkey baster because these hold a lot of fluid), more like the ones mothers use to suck up boogers.

Most medical supply stores will sell syringes without needles.

[Anonymous]

The best results I have found is to use a mix of water and a few drops of liquid detergent (WET WATER), wet balast down good with this mix. I next used a mixture of 50% water, 50% white elmors glue and a few drops of liquid detergent. I then applied this mix using an empty liqiud detergent bottle, has great flow controll. I start putting this mix between the rails, if it does not flow correctly, stop and spray area with more wet water and start again. I know people who have done this procedure for over 15 years and have not had any problems. Please Note: This mixture will take about a week to dry properly and will effect your TMCC signal until your track ties have dried properly.

[mickey4479]

I truly like ballasted track on a layout.  I did ballast first O scale (9' X 5') layout and I enjoyed it.  It did take a while to dry.  When I disassembled that to build a larger layout, the glue really bonded to the plywood and it was a real chore to get the track up.  I used some rubberized shelf material to try to cut down the noise, but the track screws went into the wood and the noise still transferred.  Lesson learned.  My present layout has about 300 feet of Atlas track.  I have been tempted to ballast that track, but if I move to a different house, it would be a real mess trying to disassemble.  So for now, I will just do without.  However, if I ever want to build a smaller layout with someone, all of your tips are great.  Thanks. 

[Neil B.]

Hi guys,

An alternative to eye droppers, turkey basters, and so on is an old Elmer's glue container (the ones with orange tops). You can regulate the flow by twisting the orange top to keep the glue/water mixture off rails and switches, and when you're done ballasting for the night, you can just close the orange top even though your bottle is still partially full. 

Neil Besougloff

editor

 

[Anonymous]

"I did try wetting everything with a water / dish washing mixture before the glue. The results were the same so I abandoned that."

---------------

In my opinion, abandoning the pre-wetting was a mistake, and something I would not recommend to others.

Pre-wetting allows the glue/watter mix, applied shortly therafter, to properly penetrate the ballast from top to bottom.  It prevents the glue mixture from "balling-up" or adhering only to the top surface of the ballast, thereby forming a sort of "crust" that has loose ballast underneath.

Since the mid-70s, I guess I've built an average of two layouts a year, in various scales ranging from Z through Large Scale.  I have used the method I described above on virtually every one of them, and have never had anything short of completely satisfactory results.

In sum:

1. Spread the ballast (I prefer Woodland Scenics ballast or John's Ballast) and shape the slopes and edges using a small brush, a piece of cardboard, or the like.  Clear the ballast off the top of the ties so the top of the ballast is slightly below the tie tops.  Avoid applying ballast around any switch points or switch machines (there are ways to apply ballast in those areas, but this ain't it). Temporarily remove any trackside accessories that are close to the track, and that you do not want to have glued in place along with the ballast.

2. When you are satisfied with the appearance, pre-wet the area to be ballasted (a few feet at a time, please) with "wet water" made by adding a few drops of dishwashing detergent to ordinary tap water and applying it to the ballast with a fine-spray misting bottle or atomizer.  The fine spray is necessary to keep from disturbing the ballast and moving it out of position.  Apply a good, thorough misting to the area you're working on.  Note:  Some folks use alcohol instead of water; I never have tried it that way).

3. Apply the glue or matte-medium mixture, which is made up of glue (or matte medium), water, and a few drops of dishwashing detergent.  Apply with an eye dropper or any other device that will allow you to dispense the mixture where you want it, instead of all over the rails and everything else.  I always work starting with the area beteween the rails and between the ties.  I keep dispensing the glue mixture until it works its way out of the bottom of the roadbed and into the adjacent scenery (which it will not harm, although it will look like H*** when everything is still wet).  Then I add more glue mixture to the top of the sloped roadbed, along both outside sides of the rails.

4. Allow everything to dry at least overnight--even longer, if possible--and then reclaim any loose ballast with a hose attachment on a small vacuum cleaner.  If you missed any spots in your glue application, or if bare spots turn up, just go back over those spots and repeat the process. 

The above procedure has been used successfully by countless thousands of model railroaders for more years than most here have even been alive.  It does take some time, especially if you have a large layout with a lot of track, but it DOES work beautifully.  When properly done, the finished ballast will retain a "loose" look, but will be cemented firmly in place.  If you need to reposition the track later on, simply wet everything with very hot water to loosen the glue, and gently pry up the track.

 

[Anonymous]

Alan, you are absolutely right about adding detergent to the matte; however, I was dim-witted enough to buy some in an aerosol can! Like the one poster above I found that the good old Elmers glue bottle itself makes a fine ballasting applicatior.

[Frank53]

Began ballasting today.

There are only certain section I can do right now, and this is one of them.

I am using Dennis Brennan's "Better Ballast" and even though I have nothing to compare it to, as I have never done any ballasting, I can't imagine there is better stuff. The material appears to be just the right size and consistency, and is very easy to use. Dennis estimated a bag would be good for about 22 feet, if I remember correctly, and that appears to be right on target. You use a lot of it for tubular track due to teh lack of additional ties and the rail height, but seeing as this is probably going to be the only layout I am ever going to build, I decided to go with the best stuff I could find.

The ballasting shown in the photos is only placed and yet to be glued. I am going to end cap the hollow ends of the tubular ties. I will probably also do some build up with died sawdust down the right hand side, and let some additional ballast flow to the right.

Dennis also provides excellent instructions for weathering the ballast, and this will be tomorrow or Monday's project after firmly gluing it.