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Lionel and Williams FM TrainMasters

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Posted by ben10ben on Tuesday, December 26, 2006 4:57 PM

Another one to consider is the K-line Trainmaster, which I'm sure you can still find new in box if you look hard enough.

The detail is pretty good, with brass-etched vent screens and spinning fans(although not powered). It's not quite as good as the newer Lionel ones, but a definite step up from the Postwar-styled Lionel and Williams ones, as well as the early MTH premier ones(I haven't seen the more recent MTHs). Unlike the Lionel ones, all the wheels are powered and the center sets on each trucks are flangeless.

I have the Lackawanna one that was sold as a club model with TMCC, RS, and smoke.  It was originally $225, which, at the time(and still is) a bargain. 

It uses one of the Lionel generic sound sets, which don't really sound that bad. Everything is perfectly audible, too.

Ben TCA 09-63474
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Posted by Deputy on Tuesday, December 26, 2006 3:34 PM

The Williams FMs I had from the early 80s all had FNR. And GEEZ they would FLY around the tracks!!! Was really weird to see that big beast whipping around so fast. They also had magnetraction, so they stuck pretty well.

I just won an MTH FM Jersey Central off E-Bay a few days ago. It has the Proto 1 sounds. Am REAL curious about what they sound like. Engine was tested before selling and has a new battery. I plan on a conversion to Proto 2 as soon as I get some cashola.  Big Smile [:D]

Dep

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Tuesday, December 26, 2006 3:00 PM

Very early.  I actually miscounted... I have 8 early Williams w/o any reverse from the factory - 3 GG-1's, 3 SD-45's, & 2 F-7 A-A units.  The GG-1's are the TCA 25th Anniversary sets, from 1979.

Rob 

Rob

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Posted by Blueberryhill RR on Tuesday, December 26, 2006 2:14 PM
Those must have been early models
Chuck # 3 I found my thrill on Blueberryhill !!
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Posted by ADCX Rob on Thursday, December 21, 2006 6:43 PM
 jaabat wrote:

...SOME Williams cannot be locked in a direction without re-wiring. 

Jim 

My first 5 Williams engines were hard wired for forward only until I put e-units in them.

Rob 

Rob

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Posted by Jumijo on Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:35 PM

Nah. Just giving you the business.

 

Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale

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Posted by phillyreading on Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:33 PM
Jim, Old bean are you getting upset? Didn't know that trains had genders! Lee F.
Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by Jumijo on Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:25 PM

Ok, Philly.

Don't get your thong in a bunch! I thought if it had a switch, it was a male train, and no switch meant it was a female train. My mistake.

 

Jim 

Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale

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Posted by Deputy on Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:25 PM
 Pennvalley wrote:
 Deputy wrote:

John: Just recently ordered if from Brasseur Trains. Got a super good deal on it (paid $449 instead of the list of $599). It's a 1999 release.

Here's the info on it:

http://www.kenstrains.com/lionel/postwar/newjersey.shtml

Check this in the ad:

"Realistic, Full-Bodied RailSounds With TowerCom and CrewTalk"

I gotta tell ya...my MTH GP-9 with Proto 2 cost a lot less and I understand EVERY word spoken. I just don't understand Lionel's probelms with their sound system.

Dep

If it's a 99', it probably is an older railsounds package. The new RS5 has clear sounding speech.

PS2 wasn't around in 99' either.

Thanks Paul. I don't really know WHY Lionel put the gobbledy goop Railsounds, Crewtalk and TowerCom in if they were unintelligible. Seems like an awful waste of technology. I didn't check, but do you know if this FM from '99 needs a battery in it? With 18 volts of power in neutral, I would have thought the power was more than adequate to be able to power these things. It was for my Mikado. I know PS2 wasn't around back then. Unfortunately, MTH doesn't make a Jersey Central Trainmaster in PS2 or I would have bought it. I may end up buying a PS1 MTH Jersey Central and just send it out right away for a PS2 update. I think it would still be LESS than what I paid for this Lionel loco. The Lionel FM is also a pretty poor performer at low speeds. I had a Williams FM back in the 80s and it ran better with the can motors than this one does with Pullmor...especially at low speeds. This is actually the first loco I've bought that I am suffering "buyer's remorse" with. Even for the price I paid, it wasn't that good a deal. Sad [:(]

Dep

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by phillyreading on Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:18 PM
 jaabat wrote:

Philly, I hate it when you disagree with me as well. So if we both hate it, why do you keep doing it?

Maybe you could lend me your magnifying glass - when you're quite through with it, of course.  Kisses [:X]Laugh [(-D]

SOME Williams cannot be locked in a direction without re-wiring. 

Jim 

jaabat, Maybe the FM Trainmasters don't have a switch to dis-able the reversing unit but some Williams have a switch underneath that is very small to locate. My comment was for you to look more closely at your locomotive before saying that it don't have a switch to lock out the direction. Not all Williams have a switch for this, and the production date does not seem to matter or the cost of the unit. Jaabat somebody needs to keep you in line!! NOT Really. Just trying to state the differences in Williams products. Lee F.
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Posted by Jumijo on Thursday, December 21, 2006 11:48 AM

Philly, I hate it when you disagree with me as well. So if we both hate it, why do you keep doing it?

Maybe you could lend me your magnifying glass - when you're quite through with it, of course.  Kisses [:X]Laugh [(-D]

SOME Williams cannot be locked in a direction without re-wiring. 

Jim 

Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale

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Posted by Pennvalley on Thursday, December 21, 2006 11:46 AM
 Deputy wrote:

John: Just recently ordered if from Brasseur Trains. Got a super good deal on it (paid $449 instead of the list of $599). It's a 1999 release.

Here's the info on it:

http://www.kenstrains.com/lionel/postwar/newjersey.shtml

Check this in the ad:

"Realistic, Full-Bodied RailSounds With TowerCom and CrewTalk"

I gotta tell ya...my MTH GP-9 with Proto 2 cost a lot less and I understand EVERY word spoken. I just don't understand Lionel's probelms with their sound system.

Dep

If it's a 99', it probably is an older railsounds package. The new RS5 has clear sounding speech.

PS2 wasn't around in 99' either.

Paul

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Posted by phillyreading on Thursday, December 21, 2006 11:20 AM
jaabat, I hate to dis-agree with you about the Williams but I have a couple of Williams that can be locked in one direction only, they came from the factory with a miniture switch underneath on the fuel tank, maybe you need to get out a magnifiing glass and look for it. Most of the GP-9's can't be locked unless you install a bridge rectifier and delete the circuit board from the motor wiring. I have two SD-45's one can be locked in forward or reverse and the other one I put a bridge rectifier in to lock it in forward. Also have an F7 by Williams that has a switch to lock it in one direction only, the F7 has an announcement about leaving on track 10 when first powered up, also diesel engine sounds. I have an MTH T1 Reading steam locomotive that has PS-2 system and everything is plainly understandable. Press the #9 button on the handheld control(DCS system) and you get the crew talk feature. Can't comment on Lionel TMCC. Lee F.
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Posted by steinmike on Thursday, December 21, 2006 10:24 AM

Folks:

A couple of thoughts here from someone who has tried to re-create a mixed lash-up using a Williams RF-16 Shark and a Lionel GP-7 with a pullmor motor, electronic reverse and magne-traction (nice idea, but it didn't work too well):

(1) John, I think you explained Jerry's point very well.  Putting the Williams unit in front works better, but you put a lot of wear and tear on the traction tires.  If someone really wants to do this, a number of folks have worked out "slowdown" circuits for Williams engines to make their performance closer to pullmor equipped engines.  I think that one of the fixes involved wiring the two can motors in series.  Not wanting to do that, I just bought a Williams NYC GP to run with the Shark. 

(2) Clark, when you say that the engines won't run together, what exactly happens?  Are the units both dark?  Do you have a short indication?  Are you running in conventional mode or TMCC (not a good idea with a Williams engine unless you want it to race through a wall)?  The engines should run together in conventional mode - one thing to remember is that a Williams engine will always start in forward, so depending on how you have the units oriented (such as both short hoods forward) they may be working against each other.

Get us a little more info and we may be able to come up with some suggestions.

Have a great Holiday all.

Mike   

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Posted by Jumijo on Thursday, December 21, 2006 10:20 AM

You can't lock the Williams in any direction without re-wiring it.

Wiring Williams Reverse Boards for Locking

I have a cheapie Lionel 4-4-2 with Railsounds and a cheapie Lionel FT deisel with Trainsounds, and both have crystal clear tower and cab communications. We can hear and understand every word perfectly.

Jim 

Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale

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Posted by lionelsoni on Thursday, December 21, 2006 10:12 AM

The one that wants to go faster will take more of the load; but I don't see how it could matter which one is in front, as Jerry seemed to be saying.  As for sharing the load, if the universal-motored locomotive is pulling hard enough, it can actually take all of the load and then some, wasting power by trying to drive the can motor back through its worm gear.  On the other hand, if it is the can motor that is pulling harder, the universal motor will, within reason, speed up to accommodate its reduced load in a way that the can motor will not.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by jefelectric on Thursday, December 21, 2006 9:20 AM

 lionelsoni wrote:
Jerry's comment about "equalizing the 'amperage'" doesn't make any sense to me.  Nor do I believe that "locking them both in one direction" will make any difference.

Bob,  What I believe he is saying is that since the can motored unit is actually trying to pull the other engine it will draw more current and since the following unit is not working much if at all it will draw less current.  While this may be true, I don't see much benfit to it and it will indeed put a lot of wear on the lead unit.  Make any sense to you?

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Posted by Deputy on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 8:26 PM

John: Just recently ordered if from Brasseur Trains. Got a super good deal on it (paid $449 instead of the list of $599). It's a 1999 release.

Here's the info on it:

http://www.kenstrains.com/lionel/postwar/newjersey.shtml

Check this in the ad:

"Realistic, Full-Bodied RailSounds With TowerCom and CrewTalk"

I gotta tell ya...my MTH GP-9 with Proto 2 cost a lot less and I understand EVERY word spoken. I just don't understand Lionel's probelms with their sound system.

Dep

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by lionelsoni on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 8:25 PM
Jerry's comment about "equalizing the 'amperage'" doesn't make any sense to me.  Nor do I believe that "locking them both in one direction" will make any difference.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by jefelectric on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 6:45 PM
Dep, Some of the lionel railsounds just don't sound very good.  I just did a conversion of a Williams GG1 to TMCC and railsounds and did a good speaker installation.  Can't understand the tower com, which you are supposed to be able to understand.  The crew talk is not intended to be understandable and it isn't.  Is that a new item or one you picked up on ebay from an earlier run?
John Fullerton Home of the BUBB&A  http://www.jeanandjohn.net/trains.html
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Posted by Deputy on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 5:36 PM

 jefelectric wrote:
A few questions.  Is the Lionel Trainmaster an older one with pullmor motor?  If so it will be a problem pairing it up with a can motored Williams.  BTW Trainmasters are one of my favorite engines.  I've got 5 of them.

HA! My Lionel 6-18321 Jersey Central FM Trainmaster arrived today. Couldn't wait to get it on the track. Geez she's a beauty. It ran fine, but I had the same problem I had with my Mikado. Can't understand the dang speech on it!!!!! I ran it under DCS and had plenty of juice on the tracks. But it still sounded garbled. It comes with TowerComm and CrewTalk. Do I need a battery for THIS too??????

Dep

Virginian Railroad

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 5:34 PM

Pullmors are usually geared for power, thus slower. The new cans are geared slower also, but the cans usually run faster than a traditional field motor. I have seen the Williams FM run, its a jackrabbit for its size, much faster than the PW one, which I have seen and worked on too.

 

From experience with double heading different speed engines, one thing you could do is put the williams in front, which will pull the PW one faster, lessening the load on the PW one, which would "equalize" the amperage on both locomotives.

 Locking them both in one direction will help too! 

 Hope this helps!Cool [8D]

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Posted by jefelectric on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 5:04 PM
A few questions.  Is the Lionel Trainmaster an older one with pullmor motor?  If so it will be a problem pairing it up with a can motored Williams.  BTW Trainmasters are one of my favorite engines.  I've got 5 of them.
John Fullerton Home of the BUBB&A  http://www.jeanandjohn.net/trains.html
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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 3:00 PM

Lock both in forward & try agian.

What  "will not run" when paired together?  Do you have a big enough transformer?

Rob 

Rob

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Lionel and Williams FM TrainMasters
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:45 PM
I have just got a N.I.B. Lionel Reading FM TrainMaster and a new Williams Reading TrainMaster.  They both run fine by themselves, but will not run paired together.  Any suggestions??

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