What should I buy - GG1 wise, that is

[anjdevil2]

Ok guys, you have all but talked me into a GG1, something I have lusted over for many years(starting in the '60's). 

Here is the dilemma:  My LHS has a MTH GG1 (it's on display, and I can't remember the number on it).  It has a sticker on the bottom that says PS2 (proto sound 2?)  He'll stick on layaway for me with 10% down.  $350 + tax.  It is NOT scale (thank goodness!)

Just as a coincidence, I recieved a Williams flyer yesterday for a Semi Scale True Blast II for $250 plus $10 shipping.  They have 50% down + shipping then 25% a month (X2).

I have heard about some problems with the ProtoSound.  Which do you all think would be the better purchase?

 By the way, I'll be picking up my Lionel S2 today!!! (I'm giddy!!)

Thanks for all your help! 

Rich 

[Jumijo]

I'd go with the Williams. But that price is very high. If I were you, I'd wait until they run their special on GG1s. $149. You are not dreaming! $149!

Jim 

[RR Redneck]

Yeah, I would have to say the Williams too.

[pbjwilson]

I would consider the MTH. It has cruise control, so that you get very smooth slow speed running and constant speed on grades. Along with that you get decent sounds. To me the speed control is the best thing thats happened in toy trains. My PS2 locos are my favorites because of it. Brings a whole new dimension to running your trains. Check to see what else the MTH has in the way of lighting and other features. I wont knock the Williams. Its a fine engine as well t a price that is hard to beat. I just think you get alot for your money with the MTH.

[marxalot]

I have been very satisfied with the Williams semi-scale unit. The low end speed is pretty good and you can make that modification to series the two can motors for better low end performance if you wish. I have not. As far as the sounds, well I really can't offer a valid opinion. I am actually USING a Marx Girard station for a steam whistle effect! I've not heard the horn on my GG1 yet!

jaabat is right too, wait for the price to come down or spend the $25 to join the Williams Platinum club and get a better reduction.

Jim

[Birds]

With the variety of GG-1's available now one has quite a range of quality items to choose from: scale, semi-scale, chocked full of sounds, classic reproductions, different road numbers, maroon, green, black, silver, blue, 5-stripe, single stripe, etc.

It's a wonderful time for GG-1 engines!!

There are some places currently selling the Williams semi-scale GG-1's for under $200.  If that interests you then it may be worth checking with "Ma and Pa Junction" or "Just Trains".

Chris

[chuck]

GG-1's didn't make a lot of noise (at tleast the real ones didn't) so I'm not sure that "sounds" should be an over riding issue.

[anjdevil2]

I'm not using any DCS or TMCC (yet), so I'm staying with conventional.  The MTH seemed very heavy, I looked at the Lionel (too pricey!).  I may go with the Williams after the new year.  I saw the ad for the Platinum club.  Essenually for the cost of a boxcar?  Seems well worth it.  I'm making a trip to New Jersey in January and with the pletora of hobby shops, I may purchase while there.  And Delaware is about 1 hour south.....so many decisions....

 

[wallyworld]

I opted for a different variation, an MTH GG1 #4916 with no proto-electronics. It has a standard horn, nothing more. It's proved to be durable and rugged as well as being an exceptional puller-it's very heavy.

[Jumijo]

William's GG1 is also quite heavy, and a strong puller.

 

Jim 

[Deputy]

I would consider the MTH. It has cruise control, so that you get very smooth slow speed running and constant speed on grades. Along with that you get decent sounds. To me the speed control is the best thing thats happened in toy trains. My PS2 locos are my favorites because of it. Brings a whole new dimension to running your trains. Check to see what else the MTH has in the way of lighting and other features. I wont knock the Williams. Its a fine engine as well t a price that is hard to beat. I just think you get alot for your money with the MTH.

Good advice!

Dep

[cnw1995]

There are some good opinions here - I was fortunate to get the Williams 027 GG1 when it was the price Jim A mentioned - for Platinum Club members by the way - another $25 - but it got you a caboose or car. A great engine - heavy, good puller, practically indestructible...

[jakeoregano]

Ahh, the GG-1 is my favorite train.  Have you considered used postwar?  Personally, I'm partial to the postwar 2332, but with one motor and no magnatraction it can have trouble pulling heavy or many cars.  And in descent condition it'll set you back between $200 - $500 for runners.  The other postwar issued GG-1's have dual motors and magnatraction (2340, 2360) but can be even more expensive in good running condition.   

If I were to go with a modern one (which I'm considering adding to my fleet), I'd go with the Williams when the price comes down.  I think it's the better deal over MTH and used ones.

 

[3railguy]

Unless you have or have plans for a DCS control system, the Williams GG1 makes the most sense. Another choice along with a postwar 2340 is an MPC green GG1 from 1981. It is built the old way with dual motors, field wound motors, magnetraction, and costs less than a postwar model. They run and pull well like the postwar models. The paint and stripes are also much sharper.

[anjdevil2]

Yeah, I really wanted post-war, but the price...I didn't realize that there was a MPC style out there.  May be worth investigating.  I'm leaning slightly toward the Williams, my LHS guy is "semi holding" the MTH.  He took it off display.  Unfortunatly, he's not a williams dealer.  After the Xmas shopping and bills, I hope to join the Platinum club.  It's definitly worth the money.

By the way, I picked up my S-2 turbine.  I'll post pictures later today. $125 was well worth it!!

[Joe Hohmann]

I have 2 semi-scale GG1's. My Williams is a green 5-stripe with semi-gloss finish (which I preferred over glossy). I bought it for $150. new, and you should be able to find a number of dealers selling at this price. It looks good and runs well. I wish it had a sound volume control, as the horn and bell are very loud on mine.

The other one is a Lionel with TMCC that appeared in the '01 catalog. It looks, runs, and sounds great, but it cost me $650. I have seen some non-5 stripe ones go on eBay for about $350.

If you are just running conventional, go with the Williams, but not at "full price". Joe

[Deputy]

Yeah, I really wanted post-war, but the price...I didn't realize that there was a MPC style out there.  May be worth investigating.  I'm leaning slightly toward the Williams, my LHS guy is "semi holding" the MTH.  He took it off display.  Unfortunatly, he's not a williams dealer.  After the Xmas shopping and bills, I hope to join the Platinum club.  It's definitly worth the money.

By the way, I picked up my S-2 turbine.  I'll post pictures later today. $125 was well worth it!!

Anj: Definitely post pics of the turbine!!! I'll see if I can haul out my 18010 S2 turbine and uncrate it and post some pics in the same thread. Maybe my wife can help me lift it out! I haven't started cleanup on my 681 or 671 turbines yet. Trying to figure out what is the best thing to use to clean them without removing any paint. I don't want to use any water-based cleaners. Don't want to encourage rust

$125 was a FANTASTIC deal on the turbine. Both mine cost $210 each.

Dep

P.S. I've also been thinking about a GG-1 (a scale one), but I just shelled out for a Lionel FM Trainmaster with all the goodies on it, so I'm down on funds.

[chuck]

Diecast metal won't rust.  You can use water based cleaners.  I prefer WD-40 on an old cotton T-shirt.  It is pretty good for removing accumulated grime/smoke pellet residue, etc and will leave a nice sheen after its been wiped off/rubbed down.

 Scale GG-1's are impressive.  They are also approximately 20 inches long and the "shell" is not articulated.  These should only be run on O-72 curves minimum and realy don't start to look "good" till you hit O-96 or higher.  While there are a few that have been made that support O-54 curves the overhang is monsterous and the loco looks silly trying to negotiate these types of curves.  The Premier and Lionel scale units have a lot of nice features but their cost is a lot higher than the Williams units.  Williams can be found for under $300.  GG-1's did not make a lot of noise in real life so the sound sets should be secondary.  IMHO, the electronics in the Lionel and Premier units are probably going to me more trouble then they are worth in the long run.  Since real GG-1's were geared pretty high (original passenger units), slow speed/cruise control is not really prototypical either.  If you like the electronics and are willing to pay for them, the Lionel and Premier ones are nice units (better details too), but $ for $, pound for pound the Williams is a much better buy.

 PS: If you should chose to opt for the PS-2 "Traditional" sized loco, ask about the extended warranty.  PS-2 electronics are pretty expensive to replace.

[Deputy]

Thanks Chuck. Didn't know about diecast not being able to rust. But what about the paint on the loco? How durable is it? I'm not that big a fan of WD40. I used it on guns and over time it tends to get pretty "gummy-gooey". What about something like Simple Green? Or even Armor All Cleaner? Not the stuff that shines the dashboard, but the stuff that cleans and leaves a dull gloss.

My outer track will be all 072 (8X16 foot layout), so no problem there. The scale GG-1 is a "distant possibility" right now. I'm not really modelling a lot of Pennsy (except for the S2 stuff). More towards upper East Coast lines like NYC, and now Jersey Central.

Oops...didn't mean to hijack Anj's thread. Sorry!

Dep

[chuck]

Post war loco paint is actually pretty hard to remove unless something was done wrong on the original paint job.  I rub down the loco after using the WD-40 so there is little of no residue.  The simple green/armor all are probably OK, just never tried them.  Kalmbach has done a few articles on train restoration in CTT over the years and there is a chapter on basic restoration/repair in John Grams Toy Train Collecting and Operating, An Introduction to the Hobby.  A lot of public libraries cary this, Dewey Decimal Reference number is usualy

625.19 G

Earlier "edition" with a slightly different title is usually cataloged at the same number.

 Further apologies for wandering off topic

[anjdevil2]

http://anjdevil2s2.shutterfly.com 

S-2 Pictures HERE!!

Hey no problem Dep, we'ree all friends here.....

[Deputy]

Wow! She's a beauty Anj!!!! You got a great deal with that one. I don't have any 2020s (yet). Taking my pics now....stay tuned

Dep

[Deputy]

Here's the pics of my two postwar turbines:

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/deputyret/album/576460762366096418

Sorry I didn't post the scale monster. But that dang thing is just too heavy for me to lug around. Geez it sux getting old and feeble

Double click the pics to enlarge them.

Dep

[twaldie]

Howdy all,

The comments concerning scale GG1s are right on,  even on 0-72 curves they just don't look right.  While everyone is thinking GG1s,  here is a question...  Did Lionel not make as many Penn Central GG1s in the JLC series as the other versions?  I was wondering because you hardly ever see them for sale, and the ones I have seen for sale are priced at around $1500.  ($799 new a few years ago?)

 Tim

[Deputy]

Howdy all,

The comments concerning scale GG1s are right on,  even on 0-72 curves they just don't look right.  While everyone is thinking GG1s,  here is a question...  Did Lionel not make as many Penn Central GG1s in the JLC series as the other versions?  I was wondering because you hardly ever see them for sale, and the ones I have seen for sale are priced at around $1500.  ($799 new a few years ago?)

 Tim

Hmmmm...seems to me a tradeoff. How would a bunch of O-scale rolling stock look behind a non-scale GG1? Kinda weird I think. Oh well...to each his own

The Penn Central GG-1 (Blech!) paint scheme was/is one of Lionel's least popular sellers. All black (Yuck!). Lionel probably knew from prior experience that they would be a bad seller and made very few of them. Looking on E-Bay, the Black GG-1s are going for pretty cheap. Anywhere from $260-$400. Just not a popular color. Or lack therof

Dep

[anjdevil2]

Dep,

Man those are nice! I may take to cleaning mine a little.  I haven't run it yet, but this may be a post war Christmas with my 2020 & the 2037!!!

 

I did join the Platinum Club and ordered my Jersey Central hopper (just in time for X-Mas)!

I'm thinking after the holiday I'm in for the Williams.  Seems a best value for the dollar and I really don't need all that wiz-bang stuff.  Plus if the price is around $150, I could swing it.  The MTH is nice and all, but I shudder at the $350 price and I'm a little shy about the PS-2.

[Deputy]

Thanks Anj. Actually, those are pics BEFORE I did any cleaning on them. I tried Armor All cleaner on the 671, but all it did was shine it up a bit. Have to keep looking for something more suitable to cleaning painted metal.

I have two Williams NYC GP-9s. They are quality stuff. I may find out if I can have them converted to Proto 2. Not sure yet. Atcually, MTH used the SAME molds as Williams for some of their older GG1 locos.
I had a Williams GG-1 back in the 80s and it worked great. Back then you could buy them UNPAINTED and paint them yourself. Mine came out okay. The big plus about Williams trains of the 80s was they came with MAGNETRACTION. Nowadays that doesn't matter that much.

Okay...hang on to your hats. I just bought ANOTHER S2 turbine!!! This one is like my 18010, only NEWER. It has all the new features that Lionel has to offer. If my wife finds out she will kill me. Then I will will it to you

Dep

 

[RR Redneck]

I never was that generous Dep. LOL

[Deputy]

I never was that generous Dep. LOL

LOL...only caveat is he has to come to my funeral wearing an S2 turbine t-shirt

Dep

[RR Redneck]

Ha, that is a good'n.