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Constant speed

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Posted by jimhaleyscomet on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:52 PM
 brianel027 wrote:

...

For me, I've solved all my speed problems for no virtually no extra cost. I've converted my 1033 to DC current and run the whole layout on DC current. A...

I don't need to spend hundred's of dollars on speed control when I already have for virtually nothing, and am exceptionally happy with the vast improvement in operation. .



Brianel,

I just wish everything I tried to modify or paint did not turn out so badly.  I guess I am almost all thumbs!

Still,  I really appreciate ALL your ideas and incorporate some.  You have me convinced that less expensive can still be loads of fun.  Beeps, Plymouth Switchers and K-line cars can be a great value!  I get almost all my engines, cars, and track from discount sets.  That is why the new ZW / Cab 1 was such a big purchase for me. 

Please keep the ideas coming..... even if for now I will stick with AC current!

Jim H
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Posted by msacco on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:10 PM

I have observed this also. I run postwar with a new zw and cab1 remote. Definitely better slow speed control with the modern zw over postwar transformers.

    But yes, the consist has everything to do with it. I also run tubular O with 031 curves and trains defintiely move a litttle slower through curves. I believe that's just physics as work.

   My 675 and Prairies like the 2026, 2016 run very slow for postwar and infact run more slowly than my larger hudson (2056)

 

Mike S.

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Posted by ChiefEagles on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:29 PM
Still can't do without the odl 1033's.  Use them for lights and sidings.  Runs switchers great.  Brian is right, Lionel really did it with the old 1033.

 God bless TCA 05-58541   Benefactor Member of the NRA,  Member of the American Legion,   Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville Laugh,   KC&D QualifiedCowboy       

              

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Posted by brianel027 on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:18 PM

Jake, Paul the Painter's tip is about as good as it gets with open frame AC motors, without spending gobs of money. The other thing is to use a transformer that starts with  0 voltage to the track instead of the typical minimum 6 volts as with the ZW.

I keep saying in my humble opinion, Lionel has never outdone the basic 1033 transformer for it's overall versatility and reliability. It's the perfect transformer for anyone wanting to run locomotives slower (with the B-U setting of 0-11 volts to the track), and is fine with both modern DC can motored locos as well as open frame AC motors.

For me, I've solved all my speed problems for no virtually no extra cost. I've converted my 1033 to DC current and run the whole layout on DC current. At this point, other than Lionel steamers with smoke units, all locos have now had the circuit board reverse units removed. I find without the circuit board reverse units, running on straight DC, my locos run both smoother, more consistant on speed (even on my tight 027 curves) and use less current to boot. I tested and tested locos side by side on test track ovals with AC and DC current, with and without circuit boards, and results were obvious

I do alter traction tire placement on a case by case circumstance as to how the loco performs best. K-Line has had them in all configurations. I find for minimizing "motor growl" around 027 curves, the tires work best on the same side of the loco, as MPC placed theirs. I add springs between the guide pin and the locomotive frame to eleiumate derailments and insure traction. And though I am not fond of single DC can motored locos with the truck mounted motor, I have found I can improve operation here by adding wieght and inserting a thin washer over the mounting pin between the truck top and the frame. This tighens up the commonplace wobble of these trucks and have found it improves pulling power.

I don't need to spend hundred's of dollars on speed control when I already have for virtually nothing, and am exceptionally happy with the vast improvement in operation. .

brianel, Agent 027

"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."

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Posted by pbjwilson on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:07 PM

Best ay I have found to make my old steamers run slower is to first clean and lube them well. Then a little trick I do is to put a drop of Rail Zip on the brush and brush holders. Improves the electrical connection. Quiets the engine down as well.

Just did this to a  MPC 4-4-2 that hadnt been run in years. Runs slow and quiet now.

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Posted by jimhaleyscomet on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:37 AM
For about $500 you can buy a new ZW and a Cab 1 command system.  Then you can run
ANY conventional engine slow with remote operation especially on flat layouts with minimal curves.    I finally (after several years) took the plung and am very pleased with the performance of new and old conventional engines.  $500 is alot but it is much cheaper than converting all my conventional engines and I can run any (except perhaps PS1?)  engine I pick up cheap (from sets and auctions).    Grades and/or curves will prevent some engines from running a constant speed. 

Jim H
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Posted by thor on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:10 AM

I don't have a ZW - wish I did - but I do have an old 1972 Atlantic and I got it to run slowly too, though it binds up on curves, there's no way around that short of an EOB board. What I did was to strip it and clean and lube it first, then put nylon thrust washers in on the rods and motion and intermediate gear to reduce friction. Basically you need to examine it very carefully under power, preferably on a rig that lets it stand in one spot, its the only way to spot the problems you need to fix.

Mine, for example, had the intermediate gear so loose it would **** sideways on its pin thereby jamming momentarily and you could hear from the clicking sounds of the motion that as much energy was being expended sideways as back and forth, all these things contribute to making slow running impossible.

Then there's the diode and DC solutions, which Bob once mentioned to me. The motor runs better on DC apparently and I forget the advantage of using diodes somehow but of course they convert AC to DC anyway, maybe the pulses do the trick? 

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Posted by Fred Bear on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:59 AM

Thanks to all, probably gonna stick with all conventional stuff for now, it's giving me enough fits! Thanks, Jake

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Posted by Joe Hohmann on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:45 AM
 jefelectric wrote:

 

Train set with TMCC controlled Berkshire 529.95 list. Don't think they sell this loco separately yet.

 

 

It's listed for separate sale with TMCC in '06 vol.1 page 56,  $350. MSRP. Joe

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Posted by Joe Hohmann on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:41 AM
 jefelectric wrote:

 Fred Bear wrote:
If a guy was to make the jump to all the digital stuff, what would he need to equip two 1666's and what other stuff would be needed to run it remotely? Would this solve the slow constant speed problem? How much money does it take to make the jump? Thanks, Jake

Jake, To give you an answer, you need a Lionel Trainmaster Command Set, which includes a command base and a remote control @ 147.99 list. Then you need to convert the engines to TMCC. TAS offer the conversion kit with EOB for 228.95 and if you want them to do the installation it is another 60.00 + shipping of the loco both ways. I understand they also are booked pretty far ahead. Probably close to $900.00 til you have what you want.

Frankly you can buy TMCC engines for about what you would spend to have yours converted. Here is an example from the latest Lionel catalog. Train set with TMCC controlled Berkshire 529.95 list. Don't think they sell this loco separately yet.

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Catalogs/Catalog.cfm?CatalogUID=A1D98741-B8B4-F5A5-9867DF780CEE5190&PageID=855

Hope this helps.

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Posted by ChiefEagles on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:24 AM
Can be done.  A steamer needs the boards installed in the tender with teather between tender and engine.  John is right.  Better buying a new one and run the old ones in conventional.  I would get a TMCC Command Base and Cab1.  Add a TPC and you will be able to run coventionals with remote.  One thing to remember is to have several lockon's [or soldered wires] around track.  This is especially true for track between opposing switches.  This is the cause of a lot of conventional trains slowing down.  A voltage drop. 

 God bless TCA 05-58541   Benefactor Member of the NRA,  Member of the American Legion,   Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville Laugh,   KC&D QualifiedCowboy       

              

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Posted by jefelectric on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:20 PM

 Fred Bear wrote:
If a guy was to make the jump to all the digital stuff, what would he need to equip two 1666's and what other stuff would be needed to run it remotely? Would this solve the slow constant speed problem? How much money does it take to make the jump? Thanks, Jake

Jake, To give you an answer, you need a Lionel Trainmaster Command Set, which includes a command base and a remote control @ 147.99 list. Then you need to convert the engines to TMCC. TAS offer the conversion kit with EOB for 228.95 and if you want them to do the installation it is another 60.00 + shipping of the loco both ways. I understand they also are booked pretty far ahead. Probably close to $900.00 til you have what you want.

Frankly you can buy TMCC engines for about what you would spend to have yours converted. Here is an example from the latest Lionel catalog. Train set with TMCC controlled Berkshire 529.95 list. Don't think they sell this loco separately yet.

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Catalogs/Catalog.cfm?CatalogUID=A1D98741-B8B4-F5A5-9867DF780CEE5190&PageID=855

Hope this helps.

John Fullerton Home of the BUBB&A  http://www.jeanandjohn.net/trains.html
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Posted by mpzpw3 on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:12 PM

Getting a postwar locomotive, such as the 1666 to run at a constant slow speed can be obtained, but it requires some work, and a lot of trial and error. I have a 675 that will run very slow, using a 1033 transformer, but it requires a little work. The track must be clean and level, and the appropriate cars must be placed behind it. I pull one Weaver boxcar, and 3 MTH overton cars behind mine, on basiclly a starter set oval, made of Gargraves track. If I hook up an RW transformer, all the "math" changes again, as to how many cars, anyway. As the track becomes dirty, the "math" changes again, although not as much as a transformer change.

It all depends on how you are running the engines. If you have grades, the engine will never move at a constant slow speed. If you are using a transformer that goes from off to 6 volts, you probably will never get a constant slow speed (again, the "load" on the engine makes a difference, and can work with the right amount of cars you are pulling.)

Engine condition also plays a part. If the engine is not cleaned and lubed properly, it will not operate well at slow speeds.

I am amazed at what my 675 can do when refering to slow speed operations. With the right conditions, It will move as slow as my MTH proto-2 2-8-0, which has cruise control.

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Posted by Roger Bielen on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:00 PM

Fred, check out the Train America Studio's web site, www.tastudios.com to get an idea what is needed.  It's been a while since I've done a changeover and that was pre-cruise control and sound.  Chief has done a few and has current experience, I'm sure he'll offer advise when he checks in.

Roger B.
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Posted by Fred Bear on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:48 PM
If a guy was to make the jump to all the digital stuff, what would he need to equip two 1666's and what other stuff would be needed to run it remotely? Would this solve the slow constant speed problem? How much money does it take to make the jump? Thanks, Jake
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Posted by chuck on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:40 PM
PW ZW, no way.  Modern, maybe.  TPC 300/400, yes, but not as smooth as a feedback loop controlled system (i.e. something with built in cruise control).
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Constant speed
Posted by Fred Bear on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:37 PM
Can a constant slow speed be achieved with old Lionel steamers, say 1666's with old Lionel track and a ZW transformer? Is the slow speed you see some loco's run at the shows a result of the new Digital Command stuff? Thanks for any answers, Jake

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