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Advice regarding which to model HO or O Gauge

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Advice regarding which to model HO or O Gauge
Posted by AlgomaCentralfan on Saturday, November 25, 2006 1:44 PM
Hello everyone,

I need your advice.  I will also post this question on the Model Railroader (General Forum).  I am soon moving out of my parents house and into my own place.  As part of that process I recently gave away some old HO trains to a thrift shop.  I gave away some of them but not all of them.  I kept a couple of newer (early 1990's) train sets.  Most of what was given away was broken and everything had the old style couplers on it.  I also own some O Gauge Lionel and K-Line trains (Pre-war, Post war and MPC).  Those are not going anywhere anytime soon.  My question is this.  What do you all see as the advantages to modeling O Gauge versus HO?  Keep in mind that I have no preference for how realistic the trains look and I am fully aware of the cost of O Gauge over HO.  I would like to here people thoughts on why they model HO instead of O Gauge.  Thank you for your input.
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Posted by CSXect on Saturday, November 25, 2006 3:06 PM

May I sugest looking in S gauge, Look at these two companies

http://www.americanmodels.com

http://www.showcaseline.com

It is a nice medium between ho and O

but if you are stuck on O check out RMT and Williams

http://www.williamstrains.com

http://www.readymadetoys.com

 

 

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Posted by CSXect on Saturday, November 25, 2006 3:29 PM
Forgot to mention that I rode the Algoma central once and would like to do so again sometime.
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Posted by traindaddy1 on Saturday, November 25, 2006 3:40 PM

Hi!  I was into HO for over fifty years and am now into O-27.   HO is great when it comes to budget and, more importantly, space.  There is a lot of different stuff you can get for HO and you do not really have to spend a lot.   For me, the look of a detailed and realistic looking "little world" layout was well the time and effort spent building the finished product. Transformers are more compact, track (snap-ridgit or snap-flexible) is easy to work with and wiring, whether to turn-outs, blocks or sidings is realatively easy.  Multiple transformer hook-ups for individual cab control is not too complicated. Overall, HO is a wonderful guage. 

That being said.........As age, eye sight and less steady hands set in, I broke down the last layout, packed away the 'better' stuff, sold some on E-Bay and donated the rest.

Now I am a dedicated O-27 fan.  I am using the same basic sized layout that held my HO trains but am looking at larger trains that I can "play with" as opposed to "operating" trains through little villages. These do require more $ and the power sources are more demanding. I am using the least expensive tubular track and, for me, is fine but you can invest in more expensive realistic looking Gargraves or some of the new Fastrack. O also lets you get into goodies like TrainMaster Command Control, TrainSounds and RailSounds. There is world of fine stuff just waiting.   Of course, you get what you "pay for"...But, then again, it is a hobby!

Personally, if I had the space and the resources, I would have chosen the larger guage earlier.

I am sure that you will hear from more knowledgeable people on this forum and I am sure you will heed their advice, as have I many times, and you will make the right decision for you. All the  best!

 

 

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Posted by Joe Hohmann on Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:45 PM
Rather than go into the many reasons I prefer "O", I'll just say that the belief that "HO saves space" may not be true, in most cases. As far as I can see, "HO" is scale, and scale trains, such as passenger cars, need minimum radius curves to "look right". So it seems to me, that  semi-scale "O" trains (which I mostly run), can "look right" in equal space that "HO" can take up. However, within the non-track space, you can fit more "stuff" with "HO" (structures and other scenics). By the way, a number of us model in more than one size. Aside from "O", I also have very small layouts in "S" and "N". Joe
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Posted by fsm1000 on Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:29 PM
I use to do HOn30 but now I do On30. It is O "SCALE" still [I have no idea what O gauge is because gauge is a measurement of the rail spacing and scale shows what the size is] and i can fit a lot into a smaller area than I can HO if I use smalle locos. Example, my porter can do a 10 inch radius very very easily. My shay does 12 but prefers 15 inch radius. Thing like that. :)
This is all O scale but narrow gauge. If you want to go the toy train 3 rail route then you need a basement to get a decent layout, but of the few I have seen they are impressive. And there are many types in between.

As for cost, I find because I make my own stuff that O scale is cheaper for me then HO.

As for advantages, I prefer O scale because of the reason you don't care about. Realism. In O scale it just looks more real because of the level of detail I can put into it.

Anyhow, I always liked O scale and now that I moved to it I enjoy it even more. :)
My name is Stephen and I want to give back to this great hobby. So please pop over to my website and enjoy the free tutorials. If you live near me maybe we can share layouts. :) Have fun and God bless. http://fsm1000.googlepages.com
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Posted by pbjwilson on Saturday, November 25, 2006 6:17 PM

I too did HO modeling for some time. Then for my sons first Christmas I got a Lionel starter set. I soon found myself more interested in the Lionels than my HO layout. The one thing that really stands out when running O gauge is the size and heft of the engines and cars. They're big, heavy and make alot of noise. And speaking of noise, the sound systems now available are outstanding. Just gives you the feeling youare really running something big and powerfull.

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Posted by Birds on Saturday, November 25, 2006 6:43 PM
Not that much difference between the two in terms of space needed:

HO:
minimum diameter circle: 30" (15" radius curves)
average length of straight sections: 6" (lengths are 3", 6", 9" = 18" / 3 = 6" average)

O:
minimum diameter circle: 27" (O-27)
straight sections: 8.25" (O-27)

Types of layouts:
O gauge trains are large enough to allow the creation a shelf layout near the ceiling and still be able to see the engines and cars.  Scenery with this type of layout can be done by making it a diorama using poster board or 1/8 MDF to make flat trees, mountains, buildings, fences, cows, etc.  This would give you a "toy train" look, but it would be an interesting match to O-27 egines and rolling stock.

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Posted by Joe Hohmann on Saturday, November 25, 2006 8:06 PM

 fsm1000 wrote:
I

 If you want to go the toy train 3 rail route then you need a basement to get a decent layout,

I prefer O scale because of the reason you don't care about. Realism. In O scale it just looks more real because of the level of detail I can put into it.

Oh?

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Posted by brianel027 on Sunday, November 26, 2006 8:33 AM

I agree with some of the comments made about space. You can do as much of a layout with 027 track on a 4'x8' as you can have in the smaller HO scale. Granted, the 027 will be somewhat more toylike, but you can still have some degree of implied realism with your scenery and just adding ties and ballasting the track. Of course, you will not be running some of the more scale proportioned and detailed recent 3-rail products, but you won't be spending the big bucks to get them either.

I don't know about the cost factor though. Depends what you are looking for. There is a great deal more variety made in HO, but when I browse through the Model Railroader magazine, I am always amazed and how much the prices have gone up in HO too. For the nicer cars with better details, or the command controled HO locomotives, you are going to pay top dollar - that seems to be true of BOTH scales. There are now more pre-assembled ready-to-run-kits in HO and these also cost more as they do in the larger scale.

For many years, there seem to be this attitude in 3-rail, especially with Lionel, that EVERYTHING is collectible and worth money and therefore it is entirely WRONG to kitbash and repaint. I"ve been back in the hobby 16 years and learned early on everything is NOT rare and everything is NOT collectible (at least on a monetary consideration). So I took my cue from the HO guys and dived head first into repainting, kitbashing and scratchbuilding.

In the "027" traditionally sized train market, there is a lot that is not available. Not just train types, but current class A modern roadnames have been grossly ignored by Lionel and were also ignored by K-Line. I have lots of stuff in Conrail, Norfolk Southern and others now. And I have some decidely non-scale "shrunk" down items that are completely unique to my layout. I have self made coil cars for example. I have some neat 027 spine cars that look right at home on my small layout. I've mimiced the gondola coal hoppers and I've mimiced othyer modern car types.

Over the years, I've been surprised at some of the enthusiasm shown for my layout by none other that HO guys. They tell me they can ignore the obvious toy like angle of what I'm doing, but say it is so refreshing to see a Lionel guy doing what they have been doing for decades in the repainting, kitbashing and scratchbuilding departments.

My layout is small by anyone's standards. Yet there is still plenty of action with sidings, switching and operation. So it's all what you want to make of it. And in reality, an RMT BEEP looks just as toylike going around 027 curves as one of the newer nice scale DASH-8 diesels going around 31 inch or 42 inch curves.

And now if I may get philosophical, nothing in this life is perfect. A quick glance at the news will confirm that. Look at all the failed celebrity marriages... I often ask what are these people looking for? Perfection? It doesn't exist, not in this fallen world. The media would have you believe it does exist, which keeps people in a state of unhappiness and longing. And chances are they are spending money in order to foolishly attempt to fill some of the empty holes in their lives.

Such as it is with the train hobby. For many, enough is never enough and the last standard level of detail or technological enhancement level won't be good enough when the next advancement is introduced.

At one time, trains were toys and in our admiring eyes, we saw the details on our imperfect models that weren't really there. That's the level of the hobby that works best for me. And if that's the approach you take with the larger Lionel types of 027 trains, I can assure you the hobby is not only affordable but do able in a small space too.

brianel, Agent 027

"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Monday, November 27, 2006 12:29 PM
A couple of  things to think about:

Even though you can get a tight radius with O27 not all O scale equipment will run through it, some requires larger curves up to O72 which is a 36" radius.  The largest HO equipment needs 30" radius.

The area taken up by an O scale building is roughly 4 times the area taken up by the same building in HO.  This means for a given space you can have 1/4 as many things - trains, track, buildings, etc. - in O as you can in HO

I started in HO, switched to O, and then to S.  I find S to be a nice compromise between the two.  More heft than HO and easier to work with, but less space required than O.  A building in S takes up twice the space of a comparable building in HO, but only half of the one in O.

See this site http://www.trainweb.org/crocon/sscale.html to see what S has.

Enjoy
Paul
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 27, 2006 5:30 PM
When it comes to choosing a modeling scale, only YOU can make a, informed decision because your needs and interests will be unique (at least I hope they are).

Opinions are like that certain part of the human anatomy--everybody has one.  On this forum, you'll find folks imploring you to go with O, O27, or S gauge, while on the MR forum you'll find folks strongly urging you to go with HO or N scale.  And if you ask the same question on the Garden Railways forum, those folks will inform you of all the advantages of Large Scale trains.

Truth is, NONE of the various scales are the be-all and end-all in model railroading--not even close.  All have their own set of advantages and limitations, and only YOU can make a determination of how those various factors come into play in your particular situation.  If there was anything close to a "perfect" scale, there likely wouldn't be any other scales to be asking about.

But if you want to go with the most popular model railroading scale, HO wins hands-down, with N scale coming in second.  That didn't just happen, of course, so there obviously are some good reasons for so many folks going with HO.

I've dabbled in nearly all of the popular scales/gauges at one time or another, and to tell you the truth, I still don't have any one favorite.

So my advice would be to listen to/read all the responses you'll get, and take them all with a large grain of salt.  Absorb the infomation that appears to be based on facts, reality, and common sense, and disregard the responses that are laden with too much emotion.  After several pages of posts on this and the other forum, you'll at least end up with some information you can mull over before making a decision and financial investment.

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Posted by Kooljock1 on Monday, November 27, 2006 6:59 PM
If you're looking for a "real" railroad experience, complete with the rumble and the roar mentioned in "The Wabash Cannonball", then for me it would have to be "O"/"O-27".

There's just something about the feel, the heft, the die-cast trucks clinking and clanking over the switches, bridges, and trestles!

There's just something about picking up a train that fits perfectly into the shape your hand makes when forming the letter "C".

There's just something about running an engine so heavy that the track flexes beneath it just like the real deal.

And yes, there's just something about the buzz, the snap, and the crash of operating accessories all loading and unloading your trains at the touch of a button! The 12' man waving his lantern! The logs sawed into planks and the milk cans unloading onto the platform.

But that's just me.

Jon
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Posted by CSXect on Monday, November 27, 2006 7:16 PM

 Kooljock1 wrote:
. And yes, there's just something about the buzz, the snap, and the crash of operating accessories all loading and unloading your trains at the touch of a button! The 12' man waving his lantern! The logs sawed into planks and the milk cans unloading onto the platform. But that's just me. Jon

 

Why are accessories so noisey anyway, my K-line operating tower buzzes so dang loud what is up with that?

It is one of my want to dos to make a low noise accessorie noise meaning the buzzing solinoids.

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Posted by 3railguy on Monday, November 27, 2006 10:26 PM

I do mostly O gauge but I do have a small HO set-up and collect HO as well as O gauge. What I find with HO is it is futzy and finicky compared to O gauge. O gauge is practically trouble free compared to HO. Working on O gauge engines is easier than HO. Premium HO diesels with command control and sounds cost nearly as much as O gauge diesels with command control and sounds. Premium HO cars cost half what premium O gauge cars cost.

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Posted by cnw1995 on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:50 AM

As others have noted, it's definitely your call; all you'll get on the forum are personal preferences anyway. That said, I started in N scale, built a wonderous (to my eyes) British outline layout using Tomix engines I imported from Japan, but found it challenging to share with my young children. I got into O by inheriting my dad's pre-war trains - then got 'my own' train set and I was hooked. I liked the externals: the heft of the engines and rolling stock, sounds, lights, smoke, smell of ozone, etc. I wasn't really interested in a particular prototype. I know a few, ahem, older guys who still work in N. 

Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.

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Posted by phillyreading on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:01 AM

Just got the new Walthers catalog, prices for locomotives for either H.O. or O gauge are almost the same with DCC or DCS or TMCC. Prices for H.O. freight cars are a lot better, prices on H.O. passenger cars were somewhat higher than O gauge.  Prices for H.O. buildings were quite high in my opionMy 2 cents [2c], sometimes more than O gauge.

Track radius is almost equal with O gauge or H.O.  The only benefit with H.O. is being able to put more buildings inside a layout compared to O gauge.

In O gauge RMT(Ready Made Trains) and Williams are helping to keep low end prices down.

To me On30 looks like an attemp at S gauge on H.O. trackMy 2 cents [2c], it does not have the regular size of O gauge.

Lee F.

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Posted by palallin on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:10 AM
 phillyreading wrote:

To me On30 looks like an attemp at S gauge on H.O. trackMy 2 cents [2c], it does not have the regular size of O gauge.

Lee F.

 

Nevertheless, the equipment is 1/48 scale.  Narrow gauge equipment IS much smaller than standard gauge.

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:03 PM
 palallin wrote:
 phillyreading wrote:

To me On30 looks like an attemp at S gauge on H.O. trackMy 2 cents [2c], it does not have the regular size of O gauge.

Lee F.

 

Nevertheless, the equipment is 1/48 scale.  Narrow gauge equipment IS much smaller than standard gauge.



In fact it is so close to S standard gauge that some of us sneaky S folks buy it and replace the trucks with S trucks.

Enjoy
Paul
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Posted by Ole Timer on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:13 PM
 O's the only way to go ! Realistic ? Have you seen the later model O scale cars and engines ? I'll never go back to HO !

       LIFETIME MEMBER === DAV === DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS STEAM ENGINES RULE ++++ CAB FORWARDS and SHAYS

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