RW breaker

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know where I can obtain a replacement breaker for an RW transformer?  I have heard you can purchase breakers at auto parts stores.  I am unsure of the current rating for the breaker, but since the RW is rated at 110 watts, and the highest output voltage is about 20 volts, I figure that the breaker is roughly 5 amps.  Is that correct?  The breaker that is in there now is original, and when AU is completetly shorted,  the breaker takes about 8-10 seconds to try to respond.  The overload indicator lights, but the breaker doesn't kick off, instead it rapidly switches on and off, unlike other transformers that kick off and require time to cool before the breaker closes again.  I would be thankful for any info that anyone can provide.

[phillyreading]

jimtrumpie,

Get an inline fuse holderor two from Radio Shack and some 5 Amp(guick blow) fuses, as this is a less expensive cure than replacing the circuit breaker.  If it has more than one output you will need a fuse for each output, this is used for new stuff that has TMCC or DCS or other electronics in it for proper circuit protection with an older transformer.

Why go thru the trouble of replacing a circuit breaker?  Also the cost and availibilty of parts is another thing to consider as I had a difficult time trying to locate miniture circuit breakers, below 120 volt range.

Lee F.

[Anonymous]

Lee,

         I considered using fuses, but I decided not to in this case.  For one thing, replacing a fuse every time you have a short can get expensive.  I wanted to retain the overload indicator as well, but I can't with fuses.  Also, the RW didn't leave Irvington with fuses, so I really don't want to stray from the way the transformer was designed to function.  I can order a 5 amp self-resetting breaker from my local Advance store, but I would like more input before I make a decision.  Advance also has these breakers  rated at 10 amps and 15 amps, which could be used when replacing a breaker in a KW or ZW respectively.  I do use 10 amp fuses between my TIU and ZW, but I wanted the RW to run PW trains the way they were designed to be run.  Thanks for the suggestion. 

[lionelsoni]

This is the sort of circuit breaker that you are thinking of:

http://www.littelfuse.com/cgi-bin/r.cgi/en/prod_series.html?SeriesID=719&LFSESSION=uPEIjejCAc

It should cost only a few bucks.  The original circuit breaker was designed for 5.5 to 6 amperes continuously and to open in 8 to 12 seconds with a current of 14 amperes; so a 5-ampere replacement should do nicely.  You can solder to it or use 1/4-inch Faston connectors.

A better protection than fuses for the electronics in modern locomotives is a transient voltage suppressor.  For a 20-volt output you should use about a 30-volt suppressor.

 

[Anonymous]

Bob,

          Thanks for the info!  The link you provided is the exact breaker I can order from Advance.  They want $10.99 plus shipping for the breaker.  I am going to check other stores in my area to see if they stock it.  This way I could get it quicker, and I wouldn't have to pay shipping.  Thanks again for the help!

[lionelsoni]

You should be able to find it in stock somewhere for a fraction of that.  Good luck!

[ChiefEagles]

Bob, why can't he use a auto type resetting breaker?   

[lionelsoni]

Frank, that's just what we're talking about.

[ChiefEagles]

Advance and Auto Zone.  I think I paid $4 for the breaker and about $3 for the inline fuse holder to "snap" it into.  I do get a discount on parts.

[martinden]

There's nothing wrong with the circuit breaker -- The bakelite-enclosed R-88 used in RWs (and several other transformers) doesn't click on and off cleanly. It cycles rapidly, making the red light flicker. (And if you listen in a quiet room, you can hear little noises -- hard to describe -- coming from it). I've had my original RW since Christmas 1949, and it's worked that way from the beginning, as does another RW I picked up a few years ago. It's just the way they function -- nothing's wrong. As indicated by the part number, this item was originally specified for the R transformer (which has two of them), and similar (probably identical) circuit breakers were also used in the A, Q, and S; I have an A and an S, and they work the same way. Just BTW, I'll note that I've also seen now and then on parts lists an "RW" prefix CB, which I assume is a later wafer-type design, and would likely work in the "click-on-and-off" manner.

The Lionel service manual indicates a CB "set to carry 5-1/2 - 6 amperes continuously," adding that it "should open in 8 -12 seconds with a current of 14 amperes."

[lionelsoni]

Never having had any of those transformers, I have never experienced anything but the other kind of Lionel circuit breaker.  I did notice that the trip time Jim described was consistent with the manual, but supposed that the breaker should open completely for a while, like the ones I'm used to.  So I guess that settles it, unless Jim actually wants the other type.

[phillyreading]

Jim,

 Make sure you specify AC circuit breakers as automotive may pop too fast as they are DC, or at worst automotive breakers may POP!!(as in blow up).   Automotive or car voltages are around 14.8 volts DC off the alternator and Lionel or other transformers are close to 20 volts AC.

Lee F.

[Anonymous]

I would like to thank everyone who has replied so far.  I sprayed the points in the breaker with contact cleaner, and adjusted the fixed (not thermal) strip to allow the breaker to open a little easier.  Now, with AU at 19 volts, then completely shorted, the breaker opens in about 3-5 seconds and lights the overload indicator and AU becomes an open circuit.  The indicator goes dark as soon as the short is removed.  Is that normal?  How can I check how much current the breaker is carrying right before it opens?  Once again, thanks for any info you may have.

[lionelsoni]

DC breakers are just fine.  They will not trip any faster on AC than on DC.  AC is much easier on switches and circuit breakers than DC is; using AC rather than DC more than makes up for the modest voltage increase.

[phillyreading]

Try using an Amp meter in series with the track wire from the A terminal, run the wire from the transformer to meter than to the track. A multimeter may work if it has a high enuff amp range on it.

Lee F.

[lionelsoni]

Jim, you may have made it open too easily.  I don't know what you have on hand in the way of power resistors, volt meters, and ammeters; but you need to set up a 5 or 6 ampere load and verify that it will drive it indefinitely, then a slightly higher load to see that it eventually trips.

[Anonymous]

Bob,

          Do you think a 10 amp breaker could be used in an RW?  The service manual says that the breaker will carry 5.5-6 amps continuously and should open in 8-12 seconds with a current of 14 amps.  This has me confused.  As always, your help is greatly appreciated.

[lionelsoni]

I would stay with 5 amperes.  The rated current of a circuit breaker is normally the current that it can carry indefinitely.  That is the (approximate) rating of the original breaker; so I would replace it with one of a similar rating.

[martinden]

Jim, if you want to replace the circuit breaker (though to me, it doesn't appear that anything is wrong with it), Lionel Train Parts has a replacement R-88. I assume they are repros, not originals, but I don't know. He has an e-mail address listed at his site, and says he answers questions.

 http://www.hometown.aol.com/lionelparts/LionelParts.htm

[ChiefEagles]

Bob N, I guess we will stick to our automotive type.   They have sure made me feel a lot safer using them.

[Anonymous]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I fixed the RW.  The original breaker ceased to function, so I replaced it with a Buss 10 amp breaker.  The RW works great.  It tests within Lionel's specs, so I am happy with it.  I would like to thank everyone for their help, especially Bob Nelson.  It is nice to know that there is a good group of people who are so eager to help one another.  Thanks again!