Your thoughts on the new TMCC II Legacy System

[Anonymous]

"Gentlemen: You can't fight in here -- this is the War Room!"

[dougdagrump]

Deputy Said:

There hasn't been a return to toy trains by anyone but us old farts since then. Most kids have no idea what a steam engine is and couldn't care less.

Is that why our club sponsors a kids club, minimum age 6yrs, that has a waiting list to join. Also most of the kids who are members are not there because their parents are members, in fact a few of the adults joined after their children did. We also, not to sound sexist, have some girls in the kids club as well as ladies that actively participate in the layout operations.

Part of the problem in my opinion is the lack of exposure, if they only see one running a tight circle around the tree at Christmas what can you expect. We have visitors at the museum that essentially have to drag their kids out and some you recognize because they will be there several times a month, every month.

[jonadel]

Several of the things I really like about this forum is:  the lack of seriousness concerning our addiction to playing with sort of expensive toy's (even the cheap ones are a good meal out); being able to make fun of each other and still be friends; stealing each other's good ideas; learning something new every time I sign on; but most of all--respecting each other.  I've never thought of the high post counts as a recognition of superiority, some people just naturally like to share without fear of ridicule and that's great and I've never ever felt like it's a "good 'ol boy's club".  It was great fun a month ago to meet some of the guys from this forum at York, I hope we get to do that again and it only happened because of this forum, let's keep it friendly.

If you are the new kid on the block you will always be welcome and respected but be sure and check your ego at the door.

Jon

[tmcc man]

Thanks guys. It is people like him that disrupt this great place to talk toy trains. It is very unfair to all of you who tried to answer him, but were shot down. Unfair, and uncalled for.

[1688torpedo]

 Deputy-  I'm also sorry for welcoming you on this forum. I have found the folks here to be easy going & very helpful to each other also.You do not have to agree with anyone here. However, there is no reason to put down folks who have less expensive,detailed trains than you & you need to think before you speak. Everyone here was trying to answer your questions about Legacy to the best of their knowledge & experiance to no avail.

[csxt30]

You know what Deputy, I am now sorry that I even welcomed you on the forum. By the way, jaabat was just explaining what he thought of the information he has recieved from fellow forum members. He never once said that you couldn't disagree with anyone. Yeah, I am going to defend forum members, because unlike you, they actually give back to the forum, instead of going on rants.

Really in LONG Pants now, Colin.  

That's  for me, Colin.  You did great.

Me too Colin !! Thanks !!

[Blueberryhill RR]

You know what Deputy, I am now sorry that I even welcomed you on the forum. By the way, jaabat was just explaining what he thought of the information he has recieved from fellow forum members. He never once said that you couldn't disagree with anyone. Yeah, I am going to defend forum members, because unlike you, they actually give back to the forum, instead of going on rants.

Really in LONG Pants now, Colin.  

That's  for me, Colin.  You did great.

[ChiefEagles]

You know what Deputy, I am now sorry that I even welcomed you on the forum. By the way, jaabat was just explaining what he thought of the information he has recieved from fellow forum members. He never once said that you couldn't disagree with anyone. Yeah, I am going to defend forum members, because unlike you, they actually give back to the forum, instead of going on rants.

Really in LONG Pants now, Colin.  

[ben10ben]

Truthfully, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

While I use TMCC because it works well for me(and I do run a lot of conventional stuff), if DCS works better for you, then use it. I'm not one to argue with your own personal assesment of what your needs are.
At the same time, though, if I see a statement to the effect of "DCS is better", I can't just let it sit and go uncontested. That's mostly what I've been doing the past couple of days.

So, no hard feelings, Deputy.

[tmcc man]

You know what Deputy, I am now sorry that I even welcomed you on the forum. By the way, jaabat was just explaining what he thought of the information he has recieved from fellow forum members. He never once said that you couldn't disagree with anyone. Yeah, I am going to defend forum members, because unlike you, they actually give back to the forum, instead of going on rants.

[Deputy]

We're the BIG 4 !! We buy the crappy cheap stuff you mentioned . Plus we stick up for the other little guys that buy it . 

 

Ahhhh...so it's the comment about the "cheap stuff" that offends?? So sorry. I will now refer to it as the "low budget class" of Lionel. Certainly want to be politically correct.

Dep

[dwiemer]

jaabat: So when a real train stops operating, they just flip off something like a lightswitch and it goes instantly quiet???? Interesting!!!

And save the jab about disrespecting the acknowledged experts. I can certainly disagree with their opinions. Otherwise, what's the point of a forum? Disagreeing about the performance or sound quality of a locomotive is a subjective thing. Some folks like them and some don't. And that's a GOOD thing. I'd be pretty disappointed if MTH sounded EXACTLY like Lionel and all these sounds sounded EXACTLY the same to everyone. Welcome to cloneland!!! I received no complaints by anyone I disagreed with about any of the comments I made. Nor did I receive any warnings from mods about bad performance. If I had, I would have apologized immediately. Let's save the touchy-feely emotional stuff for the politically correct forums. We are all pretty much adults here, OLD adults for that matter. So I don't think anyone is wearing their emotions on their sleeves.

Dep

Hey Deputy Dawg,
Add me to a long list of forumites who don't want anything further to do with you or your posts. And don't be surprised if many of your future rants go unanswered. You've got the sandbox all to yourself. Is that touchy-feely-less and politically incorrect enough for you, big boy?

Watch your fingers. I'm hanging up.

Yeah, double me too ! I'm one of the small potatoes too !!

I'm not in the big 4, but I am part of a great group who would rather respect each other and be kind than tear down.  I mostly run the cheap stuff, but I enjoy it.

Dennis

[csxt30]

We're the BIG 4 !! We buy the crappy cheap stuff you mentioned . Plus we stick up for the other little guys that buy it . 

[Deputy]

Awww...c'mon...all you guys need is a big hug .

Here's an interesting pattern from the " Lionel good ol' boy" club...

jaabat
Posts 2,504

ChiefEagles
Posts 5,186

Blueberryhill RR
Posts 1,372

csxt30
Posts 1,821

And lowly me with only 181 posts. Obviously have I no right to address such gods

Dep

 

[csxt30]

jaabat: So when a real train stops operating, they just flip off something like a lightswitch and it goes instantly quiet???? Interesting!!!

And save the jab about disrespecting the acknowledged experts. I can certainly disagree with their opinions. Otherwise, what's the point of a forum? Disagreeing about the performance or sound quality of a locomotive is a subjective thing. Some folks like them and some don't. And that's a GOOD thing. I'd be pretty disappointed if MTH sounded EXACTLY like Lionel and all these sounds sounded EXACTLY the same to everyone. Welcome to cloneland!!! I received no complaints by anyone I disagreed with about any of the comments I made. Nor did I receive any warnings from mods about bad performance. If I had, I would have apologized immediately. Let's save the touchy-feely emotional stuff for the politically correct forums. We are all pretty much adults here, OLD adults for that matter. So I don't think anyone is wearing their emotions on their sleeves.

Dep

Hey Deputy Dawg,
Add me to a long list of forumites who don't want anything further to do with you or your posts. And don't be surprised if many of your future rants go unanswered. You've got the sandbox all to yourself. Is that touchy-feely-less and politically incorrect enough for you, big boy?

Watch your fingers. I'm hanging up.

Yeah, double me too ! I'm one of the small potatoes too !!

[Blueberryhill RR]

jaabat: So when a real train stops operating, they just flip off something like a lightswitch and it goes instantly quiet???? Interesting!!!

And save the jab about disrespecting the acknowledged experts. I can certainly disagree with their opinions. Otherwise, what's the point of a forum? Disagreeing about the performance or sound quality of a locomotive is a subjective thing. Some folks like them and some don't. And that's a GOOD thing. I'd be pretty disappointed if MTH sounded EXACTLY like Lionel and all these sounds sounded EXACTLY the same to everyone. Welcome to cloneland!!! I received no complaints by anyone I disagreed with about any of the comments I made. Nor did I receive any warnings from mods about bad performance. If I had, I would have apologized immediately. Let's save the touchy-feely emotional stuff for the politically correct forums. We are all pretty much adults here, OLD adults for that matter. So I don't think anyone is wearing their emotions on their sleeves.

Dep

Hey Deputy Dawg,
Add me to a long list of forumites who don't want anything further to do with you or your posts. And don't be surprised if many of your future rants go unanswered. You've got the sandbox all to yourself. Is that touchy-feely-less and politically incorrect enough for you, big boy?

Watch your fingers. I'm hanging up.

[ChiefEagles]

jaabat: So when a real train stops operating, they just flip off something like a lightswitch and it goes instantly quiet???? Interesting!!!

And save the jab about disrespecting the acknowledged experts. I can certainly disagree with their opinions. Otherwise, what's the point of a forum? Disagreeing about the performance or sound quality of a locomotive is a subjective thing. Some folks like them and some don't. And that's a GOOD thing. I'd be pretty disappointed if MTH sounded EXACTLY like Lionel and all these sounds sounded EXACTLY the same to everyone. Welcome to cloneland!!! I received no complaints by anyone I disagreed with about any of the comments I made. Nor did I receive any warnings from mods about bad performance. If I had, I would have apologized immediately. Let's save the touchy-feely emotional stuff for the politically correct forums. We are all pretty much adults here, OLD adults for that matter. So I don't think anyone is wearing their emotions on their sleeves.

Dep

Hey Deputy Dawg,
Add me to a long list of forumites who don't want anything further to do with you or your posts. And don't be surprised if many of your future rants go unanswered. You've got the sandbox all to yourself. Is that touchy-feely-less and politically incorrect enough for you, big boy?

Watch your fingers. I'm hanging up.

[Jumijo]

jaabat: So when a real train stops operating, they just flip off something like a lightswitch and it goes instantly quiet???? Interesting!!!

And save the jab about disrespecting the acknowledged experts. I can certainly disagree with their opinions. Otherwise, what's the point of a forum? Disagreeing about the performance or sound quality of a locomotive is a subjective thing. Some folks like them and some don't. And that's a GOOD thing. I'd be pretty disappointed if MTH sounded EXACTLY like Lionel and all these sounds sounded EXACTLY the same to everyone. Welcome to cloneland!!! I received no complaints by anyone I disagreed with about any of the comments I made. Nor did I receive any warnings from mods about bad performance. If I had, I would have apologized immediately. Let's save the touchy-feely emotional stuff for the politically correct forums. We are all pretty much adults here, OLD adults for that matter. So I don't think anyone is wearing their emotions on their sleeves.

Dep

Hey Deputy Dawg,
Add me to a long list of forumites who don't want anything further to do with you or your posts. And don't be surprised if many of your future rants go unanswered. You've got the sandbox all to yourself. Is that touchy-feely-less and politically incorrect enough for you, big boy?

Watch your fingers. I'm hanging up.

[Deputy]

jaabat: So when a real train stops operating, they just flip off something like a lightswitch and it goes instantly quiet???? Interesting!!!

And save the jab about disrespecting the acknowledged experts. I can certainly disagree with their opinions. Otherwise, what's the point of a forum? Disagreeing about the performance or sound quality of a locomotive is a subjective thing. Some folks like them and some don't. And that's a GOOD thing. I'd be pretty disappointed if MTH sounded EXACTLY like Lionel and all these sounds sounded EXACTLY the same to everyone. Welcome to cloneland!!! I received no complaints by anyone I disagreed with about any of the comments I made. Nor did I receive any warnings from mods about bad performance. If I had, I would have apologized immediately. Let's save the touchy-feely emotional stuff for the politically correct forums. We are all pretty much adults here, OLD adults for that matter. So I don't think anyone is wearing their emotions on their sleeves.

Dep

[Blueberryhill RR]

I operate my Railsounds equipped Lionels without a battery. Once the power is cut off, what do I care if the sound stops? If the power is shut off, I'm no longer running trains. The Railsounds operate just fine on track power only. And I only run the "cheapie" stuff without TMCC or DCS.

I certainly appreciate the wealth of knowledge that the forum regulars bring to the table. They really know their stuff! People like Ben, The Chief, Buckeye, etc., have taught me a heck of a lot about toy trains without ever making me feel like I'm being talked down to or snickered at. That's what makes this forum so good in my opinion.

Jim

Very well put, Jim.  I probably know less than everybody ( almost everybody ), about sound systems in trains. Mainly, because I do not have any. Except nice whistles / horns / bells. If I ever decide to put some in my trains, I will certainly contact the guys mentioned above.

Chuck

[Jumijo]

I operate my Railsounds equipped Lionels without a battery. Once the power is cut off, what do I care if the sound stops? If the power is shut off, I'm no longer running trains. The Railsounds operate just fine on track power only. And I only run the "cheapie" stuff without TMCC or DCS.

I certainly appreciate the wealth of knowledge that the forum regulars bring to the table. They really know their stuff! People like Ben, The Chief, Buckeye, etc., have taught me a heck of a lot about toy trains without ever making me feel like I'm being talked down to or snickered at. That's what makes this forum so good in my opinion.

Jim

[Deputy]

Yes, I know. The BCR is a capacitor that holds enough charge to keep things going for a few hours at a time, but then loses it.

You could still, in theory, though, fry a PS-1 board if you try to run the engine without letting the capacitor charge up first.

The point we're trying to make is that TMCC and Railsounds work without a battery or anything masquerading as a battery.

 

UNTIL.....you kill the power

Dep

[ben10ben]

Yes, I know. The BCR is a capacitor that holds enough charge to keep things going for a few hours at a time, but then loses it.

You could still, in theory, though, fry a PS-1 board if you try to run the engine without letting the capacitor charge up first.

The point we're trying to make is that TMCC and Railsounds work without a battery or anything masquerading as a battery.

[Deputy]

Ben: The device they sell here...  http://www.jandwelectronics.com/

is not a battery in the conventional sense of the term.

"This device allows you to store or display your engines and never need to charge your battery to operate them.  After one minute of applying power, at 10 volts or more, to activate the BCR, the engine will be able to fully operate.  No longer do you have to replace the battery or be concerned about the battery leaking and damaging your engine.  The BCR can be left in the engine indefinitely. After turning the power off to the track, the BCR will hold a charge for 2 to 3 hours, depending on the engine. If you have not operated the engine in 2 to 3 hours, power up the engine in the reset position, for one minute at 10 volts or more."

That's why I'm gonna replace all the batts in my locos and ioperating stuff with this gizmo.

Dep

[ben10ben]

Ni-Cad batteries won't corrode.

They have another big problem, though. If they are repeatedly used such that they are only partially discharged and then charged, the unused part crystallizes and becomes unusable, thus dramatically reducing the battery's capacity. PS-1 engines force the battery into this discharge cycle by the way the charging circuit works. Eventually, the battery loses all of its capacity. If you then try to bring the engine up with no charge in the battery, it can scramble the circuits and the engine won't run. If you remove the battery, the engine won't run at all. PS-2 engines also require a battery to run.

Railsounds requires a battery if and only if they're run in conventional mode and you want shutdown sounds after you kill the power to the track. Otherwise, the battery is completely unecessary. As I recall, the last time I installed a Railsounds upgrade in an engine using components from Digital Dynamics, the instructions mentioned how to install a battery holder if you should need one, but didn't include one. I didn't bother to obtain and install one, since I knew that the engine would only be run under TMCC.

By the way, I sure as heck hope that people aren't putting lead-acid batteries in their engines. Recharging them causes electrolysis of the electrolyte, which gives off hydrogen. Hydrogen is a disaster around arcing motors. Alkaline-manganese and carbon-zinc batteries, on the other hand, are perfectly safe.

[Deputy]

  One note, with TMCC [unless running in conventional mode] you don't need a battery.    .

That is 100% true.  You don't need a battery for TMCC products.  In fact,  from reading two to three years of past comments on about four different train forums,  many electrical minded individuals strongly urge you not to have the batteries in the engines due to possible corrosion over the long term. 

Without opening up one of my engines with an upgrades from TAS,  I'm not 100% sure of this, but I don't remember a connection for a battery being included.  Chief, does DD have a battery connection with their upgrades?

(Chief , the next time you come north bring a MTH PS2 Diesel and we will compare the sound with my Lionel TMCC/Railsounds CSX SD-80.  We will video tape the results.)

The website I posted offers a conversion from rechargeable battery to a diode-type system. Not sure but I don't think that NiCad batteries will corrode like conventional lead-acid batteris.

Dep

[chuck]

The command control board does not require a battery for any reason.  A RailSounds board will have a battery connector for use in conventional mode to allow for shutdown or Neutral sounds when the track voltage drops below 7 volts.

[ChiefEagles]

Not with the mini commander and almost sure my last full TMCC/Railsounds kit did NOT ahve a battery connector.  Been a couple of months since I did the conversion.  I do know a PS2 conversion costs about twice as much as TMCC.   

[Buckeye Riveter]

  One note, with TMCC [unless running in conventional mode] you don't need a battery.    .

That is 100% true.  You don't need a battery for TMCC products.  In fact,  from reading two to three years of past comments on about four different train forums,  many electrical minded individuals strongly urge you not to have the batteries in the engines due to possible corrosion over the long term. 

Without opening up one of my engines with an upgrades from TAS,  I'm not 100% sure of this, but I don't remember a connection for a battery being included.  Chief, does DD have a battery connection with their upgrades?

(Chief , the next time you come north bring a MTH PS2 Diesel and we will compare the sound with my Lionel TMCC/Railsounds CSX SD-80.  We will video tape the results.)