Where the heck is this cable?????? RS11

[Deputy]

I looked all over the internet for an RS11 cable for programming my DCS stuff. Is this cable still in existence? Is an RS11 an old name for a cable that has been named something else? I found DB9 serial port cables. Is that the same thing? HELP!!!!!

Dep

 

[chuck]

RJ-11, type of telephone cord.  There are two types used, 4 pin that connects hand set to base telephone unit (back in the OLD Days of corded phones) and the 6 pin that goes from the phone top the wall jack.  I believe you need the smaller 4 pin style for the handset.  RadioShack/Home Depot/Lowes.  Technically, it's probably supposed to be (commonly mislabled) an RJ-10 if it's the 4 conductor.

More than you probably wanted to know:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector

[Deputy]

Nope...this is a COMPUTER cable. It has a male and female connector on it. It's called an RS11 MALE -TO-FEMALE SERIAL PC CABLE.

You can see a pic of it here. It's the grey cable in the pic...not the coiled phone cable.

http://www.protosound2.com/dcsins.pdf#search='rs11%20serial%20cable'

[lionelsoni]

RJ11 is a 2-wire cord, RJ14 is 4 wires, and RJ25 is 6, all with the same size connector.  The handset cord has no "RJ" (for "registered jack") designation and is smaller than these others.

[lionelsoni]

I think RS11 is a mistake for RS232 (with 9-pin DB9 connectors).

[chuck]

That's a nine pin to nine pin RS-232 serial cable, aka a single connect one as opposed to the true standard 25 pin RS-232 that can support two devices.  The main issue with the MTH cable is determining if it's a straight thru or crossover.  This has to do with whether the 2 and 3 pins (transmit and receive) are crossed or straight.  I honestly don't recall whether its a 1:1 or crossover.  Last one I built an didn't cinch the pins down until it was working.  BTW, only Pins 2,3 and 5 are used with 5 a signal ground and 2 and 3 the transmit/receive.

BTW, make sure the RS-232 interface on your computer can handle a 56K connection.  Some of the lower end home computers have opted out to low end UARTS to support serial mice.  The DCS software will look for the fastest port it can find and this may be your internal modem.

[Deputy]

Does anyone know for sure? RS11 is what it days in MTH's instructions. I don't want to buy the cable and have to take it back.

Dep

[palallin]

And people wonder why I refuse to have anything to do with command control trains, especially DCS. . . .  The only RS11 a train guy should concern himself with is an Alco diesel!

 

[lionelsoni]

Check page 2 of the instructions:

"In order to reprogram the TIU, a standard RS 232 cable is required....a USB port can be used when a USB to DB9 adapter is connected...."

[wrmcclellan]

I have reprogrammed many MTH PS2 locos. The cable I use is a Radio Shack PN 26-117B which is a Male 9 pin (DB9) to Female 9 pin (DB9). This is a good quality shielded RS-232C cable.

Be aware that if you use a USB to RS-232 DB9 adapter, you will need to make sure you get and install the Windows XP (or whatever version of Windows you are running) USB-to-serial drivers for the cable onto your PC. Win XP does not always have the USB-to-serial drivers and some USB-to-serial drivers do not work as they do not implement all necessary RS-232 2-way handshaking that the DCS Loader requires.

[Deputy]

I have reprogrammed many MTH PS2 locos. The cable I use is a Radio Shack PN 26-117B which is a Male 9 pin (DB9) to Female 9 pin (DB9). This is a good quality shielded RS-232C cable.

Be aware that if you use a USB to RS-232 DB9 adapter, you will need to make sure you get and install the Windows XP (or whatever version of Windows you are running) USB-to-serial drivers for the cable onto your PC. Win XP does not always have the USB-to-serial drivers and some USB-to-serial drivers do not work as they do not implement all necessary RS-232 2-way handshaking that the DCS Loader requires.

 

Thanks Roy! That's what I needed to know. Headed out to Radio Shack to get one now.

palallin: I'm surprised you use these new-fangled computers!!! Twern't nothin' wrong with holler' out the door to yer neighbor  

Dep

[phillyreading]

Not sure about the Radio Shack cable but I think you will need to buy a gender adapter along with the cable to go on the back of the computer.

Is the MTH connector cable part # 50-1018 similar?    It mentions on the package that it is for TIU to TMCC.

Another question about DCS; do I need to buy anything else besides an AIU to hook up to the TIU?

Lee F.  

[Deputy]

Not sure about the Radio Shack cable but I think you will need to buy a gender adapter along with the cable to go on the back of the computer.

Is the MTH connector cable part # 50-1018 similar?    It mentions on the package that it is for TIU to TMCC.

Another question about DCS; do I need to buy anything else besides an AIU to hook up to the TIU?

Lee F.  

 

Lee: I don't think so on the adapter. According to the protosound website, "a standard RS11 male-to-female serial PC cable". I've been doiong more checking and evidently there are TWO versions of the serial port cable. One is the 9-pin and one is a 25 pin. The 9-pin male-to-female is the one to get. A gender adapter would only be necessary if you got a cable with male-male or female-female ends on it.

I don't think the 50-1018 is gonna work. I believe it has male ends on BOTH sides.

Dep

 

[Deputy]

Lee: I found a couple of websites with info on connecting the AIU. You will need Adobe Acrobat to view them:

http://www.protosound2.com/pdf/aiu_diagram.pdf

This one has most of the info for DCS/TIU/AIU wiring:

http://www.protosound2.com/dcs/body.htm

I have a quick question...how do the wires from the AIU to the accessories get connected. The pictures MTH shows are pretty fuzzy. The connection at the AIU is what I was wondering about. I don't see any threaded connectors there.

Dep

[chuck]

Serial cables are in two general flavors, straight thru and cross over, irregardless of the number of pins in the shell (9 or 25).  The original RS-232 spec was intended to connect a Terminal (a DTE device) to a modem (a DCE, a data communications device).  These would use a straight thru or 1:1 connector.  When you connect something other than a terminal to a modem you have to identify what the devices are emulating, DTE or DCE.  If you want to connect two DTE's together, you need to make up a crossover cable.   If you want to connect a DTE to a DCE, a striaght through connector is used.  The only real wires of concern for DCS are pins 2,3, and 5.  Pin 5 is wired to pin 5 (signal ground).  Pins 2 and three are either connected stright through (aka 2-2, 3-3) OR they are "crossed over", 2-3, 3-2.  I BELIEVE that the appropriate cable is 2-2, 3-3, 5-5.  The other option is 2-3, 3-2, 5-5.  Your computer's serial port must be able to handle 56K data rates or the download software will not work.

The missprinted instructions on the MTH site were probably trying to say use a modular DB-9 connector that has RJ-11 plugs on the back side that you then connect these with a piece of six conductor silver satin telephone wire.

The AIU has a series of terminal connectors that you connect the control wires to for switches or accessories, I belive it has three available connectors for each device.

[palallin]

[

palallin: I'm surprised you use these new-fangled computers!!! Twern't nothin' wrong with holler' out the door to yer neighbor  

 

Hollerin' still works mighty fine, actually.  In any case, the analogy is suspect.  I may have to use a computer to work--and I may use it for finding information fo my hobby--but my hobby is trains, not computers (that's my best friend, the guru who keeps me online).  I have a great deal of affection for trains but none for computers.  They are tools, rather like a spoon.  But trains are toys, for enjoyment, and my enjoyment is elemental. 

I watched a friend at a train show recently.  He had a fully equipped DCS set-up.  The remote looked like something off Star Trek.  He bragged about the dozens of features.  But while he was trying to figure out how to use those features and impress folks watching, I was running trains.  My MPC O gauge and my prewar Standard Gauge ran many more laps than his.  Move the lever, the train moves.  While he was consulting his manual and frantically pushing buttons, my trains were running.  My controls were not only simpler, they were cheaper, and I (and the visitors) got a great deal more enjoyment out of my layouts than he (and they) did out of his.

PR and advertising notwithstanding, old fashioned transformer control is more like the real thing.  Open the throttle and the engine moves.  Going up grade?  Gotta crack the throttle to get there.  Coming down?  Gotta shut her down or she'll jump the curve at the bottom. 

I don't like push-button remote controls, not for my TV, not for my VCR, and especially not for my trains. 

[Deputy]

palallin: So do you use a hand crank to fire up your Stutz Bearcat???

If you have any amount of time operating the controls on a DCS or TMCC setup, you'll become porficient at it. I don't like being glued to a chair to operate my trains. I like to be able to walk around and see them from different angles and speeds. I suppose if you are running a train around the Christmas tree, then a transformer and nothing else is good enough. My trains will be on a 8X16 board and I will be running multiple units at one time. With DCS and TMCC I don't have to fart around with track insulators. I can run one train right behind the other on the SAME TRACK with no worry of rear-ending the front train. Perhaps even a transformer is too much for your purposes? I know some trains used to be powered by a wind up key and had a clockwork mechanism to make them run. I mean it is the KISS principle you are concerned about...right?

Dep

[chuck]

Pictures of an AIU and its connectors:

http://www.trains.com/ctt/objects/images/aiupix.jpg

[Deputy]

I was wondering how exactly, the wires connected to the AIU. No thumbscrews from the looks of things. Do the wires just push in??

Dep

[MartyE]

The AIU has very small screw terminals on it for the wires.  A small flatblade is needed.  And I mean a small flatblade.  This is the biggest downfall for the unit.

[Deputy]

The AIU has very small screw terminals on it for the wires.  A small flatblade is needed.  And I mean a small flatblade.  This is the biggest downfall for the unit.

YIKES! So I guess this thing doesn't use the 16-18 gauge wire that the rest of the components use

Dep