Thankyou for a very lucid explanation Bob, there's a lot I have to learn about these Lionel trains, indeed all 3 rail AC as I keep finding things that dont necessarily make sense to me plus which I'm English and therefore unfamiliar with American railroading in general and may therefore be committing faux pas' quite unknowingly. Like calling my 8303 a Scout, for example. That one came from another forum person some time back, who seeing the engine in question said something about 'Scouts' which I assumed meant any of Lionels basic Atlantic's.
I used to have Trix Twin HO and for a while operated on the assumption that Lionels must be similar only bigger, after all 12volt DC two rail is pretty much all the same no matter who makes it, therefore 3 rail AC must be too but obviously, it isn't.
Sometimes a lack of response surprises me and makes me wonder if I have, in fact, just committed yet another gaffe! Its hard to tell whether a lack of response signals a lack of knowledge, a lack of interest or perhaps that one has just unknowingly inserted foot in mouth!
Thor, Lionel was not fastidious about quartering. On models with all drivers driven by gears, it doesn't matter unless you can see both sides at the same time. For example, the "General" locomotives aren't quartered at all--the cranks on both sides are aligned so that the main rods can drive the smoke-pump piston inside the boiler. Even locomotives that drive some of the wheels through the side rods may not be that close to 90 degrees. So imperfect quartering doesn't necessarily mean that the wheels have been off.
If you do take them off, I would recommend using a puller. If you're intent on improving the quartering, keep in mind that American locomotives (except for the "standard railroad of the world", PRR) normally had the right side leading the left. Lionel got this wrong on my 773, of all models, and may have on your locomotive too.
As for the motor fields, universal motors are reversed by swapping the connections of one of the two, armature or field, relative to the other. The usual wiring for a locomotive with a 3-position e-unit is to have one side of the field grounded to the frame and therefore to the outside rails. The armature is wired in series with the other end of the field winding, but through the e-unit drum, which does the swapping (leaving it disconnected in the neutral position), and then to the pickup and therefore the center rail. The usual wiring with a 2-position e-unit is to have one side of the armature connected to the pickup and the other side to the common point between the two field windings. Instead of swapping connections, the e-unit simply grounds the other end of one or the other of the field windings to the frame. The windings are wound in opposite directions; so this accomplishes the same thing.
When you replace a 2-position e-unit with a 3-position one, the straightforward approach is to choose one of the field windings to use, leaving the other open, and rewire everything as if there were only the one field winding. However, if you wire the windings in series, by using only the single red and green wires, at the same motor current, you get twice the field strength (because you are using twice as many turns of the coil), which doubles the torque, and half the motor speed (because the armature can generate the same back-EMF at that speed with twice the field strength). This is not all perfectly true, because there is some saturation of the magnetic circuits; but it helps a lot.
Note that it is not necessary to alter the connection between the field coils to use them in series, even though they are wound in different directions. This is true because the one of them that connects to the armature (through the e-unit drum) is being used in the reverse direction from the way it was originally.
Bob Nelson
Well Jim it all depends on how they're fitted. In the past I've done it with HO trains but they usually have plastic bushes so that makes it easier. If Lionel trains are an interference fit on a knurled axle and the screwdrivers are used as wedges not levers, it could work. If, on the other hand, they're shrunk onto the axles then, no, the wheel would break first.
So it all comes down to knowing how they're fitted. I dont have any extractors/pullers small enough though but one set of wheels is a bit loose and as the quartering is offset it seems obvious that wheels been off already. I've got a press so I can get the wheel back on square but I darent heat it because I don't know if its white metal, if it is it might melt.
I have a lot of experience working with motorbikes and using screwdriver blades as wedges, tapping them gently from either side to exert a straight lifting action in gentle increments will sometimes work.
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
I was misinformed about my locomotives type I guess but thanks Kooljock for telling me, how else can one learn? Last time I posted a picture of it someone said it was a Scout and what would I know?
Its number is 8303.
However I'm interested in the post of Bobs about 'less speed more torque' and curious about the business of the E-unit, why would it have two wires, etc?
Lastly would someone PLEASE answr my first question, is it safe to pry off the wheels with a screwdriver or do they need a proper puller?
thor wrote: Well thanks Daan, actually I DO know about masking tape! It's a work in progress, meaning I'm not done yet, I just couldn't resist posting a few pics. I've spent the last weeks worth of my spare time (not much of that available) working with a huge magnifier and a Jorgens clamp to hold my arm and wrist so I could actually get the shakes down to the point where it was possible to work at that size. To think I used to be able to do micro circuits freehand! However I think the real answer is to use rubber cement and paint it on the areas to be protected, then spray but its too delicate for a spray can I need a double action Paasche. Overall though I'm not too worried about the little air bubbles and the odd hair because once dolled up this loco goes back to its regular work of being thrashed flat out on an oval seeing how fast can it go without coming unstuck! BTW I havent forgotten you asked for a photo of my combo - I'm going to send you one soon. I went to Holland with the Boy Scouts back in 1959 and was well impressed by the Madurodam, that huge open air model of Amsterdam with working roads and trains - is it still there?
Well thanks Daan, actually I DO know about masking tape! It's a work in progress, meaning I'm not done yet, I just couldn't resist posting a few pics. I've spent the last weeks worth of my spare time (not much of that available) working with a huge magnifier and a Jorgens clamp to hold my arm and wrist so I could actually get the shakes down to the point where it was possible to work at that size. To think I used to be able to do micro circuits freehand!
However I think the real answer is to use rubber cement and paint it on the areas to be protected, then spray but its too delicate for a spray can I need a double action Paasche. Overall though I'm not too worried about the little air bubbles and the odd hair because once dolled up this loco goes back to its regular work of being thrashed flat out on an oval seeing how fast can it go without coming unstuck!
BTW I havent forgotten you asked for a photo of my combo - I'm going to send you one soon. I went to Holland with the Boy Scouts back in 1959 and was well impressed by the Madurodam, that huge open air model of Amsterdam with working roads and trains - is it still there?
I didn't realise you had shakes in your hand, then painting a model is really an adventure! With that in mind I would say it's well done. Madurodam still excists, though the trees have grown (even bonsai trees do grow a bit). But the cablecar and the big arch bridge are still there, the trains, big bridges and the harbour with the burning oil ship, the zoo, the marching army at the "ridderzaal" everything is still as it was, only more is added and the trains stay up to date with the real life. Even the road with the cars still works, with the still the same models on it (which are now very outdated) as 50 years earlier.
thor wrote:...Another question. The E-unit only has FWD/REV is it possible to change that to get neutral? If possible I'd like to keep the electromagnetic E unit.
...Another question.
The E-unit only has FWD/REV is it possible to change that to get neutral? If possible I'd like to keep the electromagnetic E unit.
Rob
BTW - replying to myself! - does anyone know can I pry off the wheels with a screwdriver or will something break?
Its wheels dont have the con rod bosses lined up, it only has a piston rod and I want to make better valve gear and rods so the wheels have to be properly quartered.
Another question.
The engeneers side is great, and the hatch is nicely done, but if you paint with a brush, the trick to get sharp lines is to use masking tape. The line between dark and light blue and the black of the chimney can be made much better when using that masking tape. I like the 2 men in the cab!
Here's a work in progress. I'm tarting up my old Scout.
I wanted to make it look a bit more like a steam engine, so I added two characters made from 'Homies' cut down to fit. Carlos the trainee in the tank top is being reviewed by Andre, looks like he's tearing his hair out.
The sand dome hatch is the tiniest working part I've ever built. The hatch hinges are 4 beads and the hinge is a scrap of brass wire. I'm still adding stuff, the paint job is a brush job, its not that good but it'll have to do until I can get an airbrush. The 'sand' in the dome is grits - seems appropriate!
View of open sanddome from left
View of 'sand' in dome
View of backhead and cab
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