? "O" to "O27" mating pins?

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? "O" to "O27" mating pins?
Posted by Boyd on Thursday, November 02, 2006 12:26 AM
I can't find my latest Lionel catalog and dial up takes forever on the Lionel website. Does Lionel or anyone make mating pins to connect "O" and "O27" tracks together?

Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.

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Posted by Joe Hohmann on Thursday, November 02, 2006 6:18 AM
The pins are not the problem..."O" is higher off the base than "O27". Joe
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Posted by ben10ben on Thursday, November 02, 2006 6:27 AM
No, they don't.

I generally just hammer an O pin into an O27 rail.

Most will suggest that you crimp the O rail to accept an O27 pin, but my approach has a few advantages

1. The pin holds very, very tightly in the O27 rail, and won't come out unless you intentionally pull it

2. The way the rail deforms tends to make for a very smooth transition between the different rail sizes

3. You'll be ruining an O27 section rather than an O section. O27 track is about half the price of O track

Ben TCA 09-63474
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Posted by Dr. John on Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:24 AM
I have to say I like Ben's approach. I always tried the reverse method (crimping the O gauge track around the O-27 pin) but I often ended up soldering the joint anyway as the crimping worked loose over time.

It does seem to help by shimming the base of the O-27 ties to bring them to the height of the O gauge track.
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Posted by lionelsoni on Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:42 AM

Lionel did make such pins and packed them with the 313 bascule bridge.  See page 2 of the instruction manual:

http://www.lionel.com/products/productnavigator/InstructionManuals/71-9248-250.pdf

However, there doesn't seem to be another source for them.  In any case, they are simply pins with two different diameters at the two ends, which will result in an abrupt step at the joint.  Ben's suggestion of forcing an O31 pin into O27 track will give a much smoother joint.  I would enlarge the O27 rail first with a screwdriver from underneath, then retighten it over an O31 pin by pinching the web back together.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by phillyreading on Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:52 AM

A little more costly an idea is to use GarGraves track between the 027 and Ogauge with adapter pins for the GarGraves track from 027 to GarGraves than GarGraves to O gauge track, no ruffness in transition.  You need a 10 inch piece of GarGraves track to do at least three sections, cut the track to about three inch pieces (enuff for the pins to fit into), file the ruff edges and gently tap in the adapter pins at either end.

I use GarGraves for two of my O Gauge mainlines and have some S gauge track in GarGraves.

Lee F.

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Posted by chuck on Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:00 AM
Lee is correct,  Gragraves makes an O-27 (Gragraves style pin) to standard O adapter pin that is offset, aka the rail head transition is flat. 

You could also consider using an O-27 pin and making an adapter using brass tubing, wire, and solder.  If you place the "O" side tubing on the top of the O-27 bin and place the wire below to act as a shim, you won't get a railhead offset. aka the tubing is not centered on the O-27 pin.
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Posted by purduepete1 on Thursday, November 02, 2006 1:36 PM

Actually Lionel probably still has the O-O27 adapter pins on hand. I bought a 497 coal loader about a year ago. It came with a wired UCS track already mounted and a note that for those of us who run O27 to write in to request the necessary adapter pins. Got what I needed within a week or so.

Wayne

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Posted by printer65 on Saturday, September 16, 2017 2:50 PM

did you find mating pins---where?

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Posted by TrainLarry on Saturday, September 16, 2017 6:22 PM

Here is the Lionel adapter pin

Larry

 

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Saturday, September 16, 2017 8:08 PM

TrainLarry
Here is the Lionel adapter pin

Although this part is offered, it will be quite a bump at the transition point due to a design flaw.

 

It really should be offset, like the GarGraves adapter pins.

You can make your own by starting with three "O" pins, and grind one end(to the half way point) of each 3/4 of the way around to match the diameter of the O-27 track pins/openings.

If you instead grind them to the center like the above Lionel pins, there will be a significant "bump" at the transition.

For an example of this "offset" method, look closely at the GarGraves "O" & O-27 adapter pins:

And actually, forcing the O pins into O-27 at the transitions works quite well, and the bump is reduced to the slight difference in sheet metal gauge used to form the rails.

All of this assumes that you realize you will need to shim your O-27 track ties up slightly to match the track height of "O".

Rob

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Posted by printer65 on Thursday, September 21, 2017 12:48 PM

Thanks, What I want to do is use the mating pins for 027 switches to use w/0 gauge track & 0 gauge switches. I have both gauges of switches. Rest of layout will be 0 gauge track. Mating 027 & 0 gauge switches & 0 gauage track together.

The track is ALL Lionel only---no GarGraves or anything else.

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Posted by printer65 on Thursday, September 21, 2017 12:49 PM

now is

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Posted by printer65 on Thursday, September 21, 2017 12:50 PM

 

 

 

Thanks, What I want to do is use the mating pins for 027 switches to use w/0 gauge track & 0 gauge switches. I have both gauges of switches. Rest of layout will be 0 gauge track. Mating 027 & 0 gauge switches & 0 gauage track together.

The track is ALL Lionel only---no GarGraves or anything else.

 

You would not try the mating pins you pictured?

Ed

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Posted by BigAl 956 on Friday, September 22, 2017 4:09 PM

If you must mate O27 to O, and I really distain using O27 track, It's a lot simpler to just crimp the O end of the track slightly narrower and insert the male O27 pin into the O track opening. You can crimp the O opening smaller or just bend the O27 pin to the side so it fits tighter.

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Friday, September 22, 2017 6:43 PM

If you want to mate O27 to O, and I really like using O27 track due to the wide variety of pieces available, the lower cost, & better aspect/appearance, it's actually a lot simpler to just force the O track pins into the O27 opening.

It's a much cleaner & more mechanically sound connection method and the O-27 rails can later be re-formed easily around a O-27 pin with track pliers if desired. Using a O-27 pin in "O" rails leaves a lot of extra metal material in the webbing area to disrupt the transition even more, and it frequently tears/fatigues the metal of the tube section trying to close down around a smaller pin.

 

 

Rob

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Posted by BigAl 956 on Monday, September 25, 2017 9:46 AM

Ha! Just realized this thread is 10 years old! Hopefully by now Boyd has found his pins.

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Posted by printer65 on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 3:50 PM

So you would build the entire layout w/027 track & switches? Use No 0 gauge track at all?

You think over the long haul 027 works better? I just want a smooth operating lay-out, with the least amount of problems.

Please respond w/your thoughts. Thanks.

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:34 PM

printer65
So you would build the entire layout w/027 track & switches?

Sure! I did, and do! This is all O-27:

Rob

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Posted by BigAl 956 on Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46 AM

O27 was always intended to be inexpensive track for starter layouts. The metal gauge is thinner and the track sections easily bend and distort and go out of spec more readily. That, combined with the tight turn diameter of O27 causes more derailments.

O27 switches are inferior and you cannot use most premium locomotives on an O27 layout.

There are som avid pro O27 users out there that are happy with it and I'm not saying they are wrong. It works for them, at least until the trains start derailing. All I can say is 'in my opinion' and my 50+ years experience in the hobby. O track 31 and higher is the way to go. To anyone just getting into this hobby and considdering tubular track I reccomend they use 'O' and not waste time with O27. Your layout will operate much better for insignificant extra coast.

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Posted by KRM on Friday, September 29, 2017 1:20 PM

printer65

So you would build the entire layout w/027 track & switches? Use No 0 gauge track at all?

 

Not only would I,,,I did!

This is all O27 profile track with O35 Marx and larger Lionel curves as well as the smaller loops with O27 curves.

 It works just fine.

 

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Posted by rtraincollector on Friday, September 29, 2017 2:00 PM

BigAl 956

Ha! Just realized this thread is 10 years old! Hopefully by now Boyd has found his pins.

Yes but brought back by a person looking for the same answer just a few days ago. 

I also agree with others that O-27 track is a fine track system to use. I have made many layouts with O-27 wit no proublems. and to me the 5122 and 5121 switches where some real good switches. 

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Friday, September 29, 2017 5:37 PM

BigAl 956
...O27 switches are inferior and you cannot use most premium locomotives on an O27 layout...

Sorry, but that's a very broad & patently false statement.

There is no virtue to "O" that makes trains run better on it.

Rob

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Posted by rtraincollector on Friday, September 29, 2017 6:01 PM

ADCX Rob

 

 
BigAl 956
...O27 switches are inferior and you cannot use most premium locomotives on an O27 layout...
 
Sorry, but that's a very broad & patently false statement.

There is no virtue to "O" that makes trains run better on it. 

Also most track today has the height of O-27 ( I'm talking actual rail height not track height ) The only problem is finding O-27 track with a wider radius than O-27 or O-31. Yes it was made in 42" and 54" radius and I believe they even did some at 72" radius but all those are not easy to find as to my knowledge they stop making it in either late 60's or early 70's

Al you really need to learn facts about something before you start throughing out false statements. 

As a little proof for you here is a listing for 54" radius O-27 track 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Lot-of-27-Brown-Tie-O-27-Curve-Tracks-54-Radius-/372084821267?hash=item56a1fbcd13:g:Z70AAOSw7cxZnNaD

 

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Friday, September 29, 2017 6:35 PM

rtraincollector
...Yes it was made in 42" and 54" radius and I believe they even did some at 72" radius but all those are not easy to find as to my knowledge they stop making it in either late 60's or early 70's...

The layout video I posted above is 27", 42", 54", & 72". All of the large radius is new K-Line & Lionel made since 1990. The switches are 42".

Rob

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Friday, September 29, 2017 6:56 PM

ADCX Rob

 

 
rtraincollector
...Yes it was made in 42" and 54" radius and I believe they even did some at 72" radius but all those are not easy to find as to my knowledge they stop making it in either late 60's or early 70's...

 

The layout video I posted above is 27", 42", 54", & 72". All of the large radius is new K-Line & Lionel made since 1990. The switches are 42".

 

Rob and RT,

 Rob Is correct. All my track is after 1990. Same here and add in the Marx 34" or 35'R or what ever you want to call it.

 The fact is you can hook Ross switches into O27 profile with less issues than O-gauge "High Rail"  (that looks very un-real) track. The rub is,,,, all O27 is being dropped off the build list from those who made it. So in the end of the day,,, would I do it again,,,,NO! Do I like it ,,,,YES!!! Am I glad I have it? YES I AM!!!!

Next????

 

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Posted by rtraincollector on Friday, September 29, 2017 7:27 PM

Kevin thanks for the info on it was still being made. I was not aware of that. But my point was that it is out there and there is radius for O-27 other than 27" 

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Posted by rtraincollector on Saturday, September 30, 2017 8:03 AM

Printer65. Like Kevin would I make a layout of O27 probably not. Is it a good system yes. But you asked is it better the answer is no. Is O better than O-27 I would have to say yes. But then you have so many other systems out there also. The main question do you want a track system look's correct or a track system that will do. O-27 is a system that does work. And if I was going to use it I would use just O-27 or just O gauge track not a mixture. Can you mix them? yes. Just most wouldn't, because of the difference in height of the two. I personally have more O gauge track than I know what to do with as I probably will never have a layout again, because of lack of room in this house. I also have enough of the gargraves track than I know what to do with. Same story no room.

Bottom line use what you want. it all will work. And about 99% of the engines you can own will work on it as long as you have the correct radius track. The only engines you might have a problem with is ( and most of these will work on O-27 too. ) is some post war engines that are specifically for O gauge track as they have bigger flanges.

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