Lionel's New Motor Drive-System

[palallin]

 Can a loco be run without the tire and not be leaning to one side?

 

Depends on the engine.  I do know that a missing tire can raise other wheels off the rails, further reducing tractive effort.

[Deputy]

I have a similar thread here...

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/941203/ShowPost.aspx

...asking about the status of Magnetraction. There are some excellent suggestions for ADDING ON Magnetraction to a loco that doesn't have it. I don't know what the solution would be to the traction tires that wear out quickly. Can a loco be run without the tire and not be leaning to one side?

Dep

 

 

[3railguy]

Pulling power alone does not tell me everything. How long do the rubber bands last before breaking? How fast will it take curves before flipping? How does it react to a full throttle start such as with on/off block control relays. The 12 wheel drive power frame with magnetraction and field wound motors used in the 1988 GE dash 8-40C is my favorite. That engine pulls stumps and hugs curves very well.

On the other hand, I can't expect a $350 engine for $225.00. The tunnel motor's price is pretty attractive.

[daan]

I'm pretty much a traditonal sized operator but just how big a deal is this anyway. How much pullling power difference are we talking about here? Jeez I"m sure this new truck design provides more pulling power than any operator could ever hope for.

  Mike S>

 

Out of the box and on straight track they claim it has equal pulling power. But I don't run trains on a staight track only. I've seen it with all makes, MTH, K-line and Lionel. They loose the tractiontyres soner or later, and if there is a tyre on both sides of an axle, the tractiontyre doesn't last more then 10 rounds across the layout. Either one will loosen up and "derail".

I've removed all tractiontyres on one side of each locomotive, some of them don't have tractiontyres anymore because of not holding on to the wheel. Pulling power is all about weight and friction. Both combined, they'll give a good running locomotive. But to maximize the weight profit, all axle's supporting the locomotives weight, should be powered. To add even more friction, magnetraction and tractiontyres where invented. Both inventions are supports, not solutions. They now take away the weight part (only half the locomotive's weight is supported on driven axles), which is the most important origine of the traction and try to compensate that by excessive use of supports.

 It's like building an all terrain vehicle with 2 wheel drive only. They add good tyres on the 2 driven wheels, but as soon as those tyres dig in the mud, there is no grip anymore and the vehicle stalls. A true 4 wheel drive vehicle probably wouldn't be able to drive fast there either, but it doesn't stall, because every wheel is powered, even if the tyres are completely covered in mud.

[johnandjulie13]

I recently purchased the Santa Fe freight set that includes the U28CG engine.  I believe this engine has the new drive system.  It has traction on the drive wheels and magnetraction on the non-drive wheels.  Being relatively new to the hobby, I do not have a basis for comparison, but the engine had no trouble pulling 12 scale freight cars (including caboose) at a very high rate of speed.  Only time will dictate the engine's durability.

Regards,

John O

[lionelsoni]

The only traction tires I have are ones that haven't fallen off yet.  I wouldn't buy a non-magnetraction locomotive that isn't heavy enough and has enough wheels powered to pull well without them.

[msacco]

I'm pretty much a traditonal sized operator but just how big a deal is this anyway. How much pullling power difference are we talking about here? Jeez I"m sure this new truck design provides more pulling power than any operator could ever hope for.

  Mike S>

[statistician]

Mike,

Both the Chessie SD-40-2 and the D&RGW SD-40T2 featured this new drive system. 

I preordered the Tunnel Motor D&RGW thinking it was 12 -wheel drive. What a shock I got when I turned it upside down... I thought they sent me a dummy unit by mistake!!! The Lionel catalog at the time did not specifically mention that only 4 of the 12 wheels were powered.

Unfortunately, the stigma attached to only 4 wheel drive on any SD locomotive may be enough to keep buyers away, despite them being equally as powerful as the 12 wheel drive units.  

Compare this to the SD-50 AA units in the D&RGW scheme from 1995, where Lionel offered 24 wheel drive with 4 Pullmor's and MagneTraction between the two units!!!  

[Deputy]

Where is MAGNETRACTION when we need it????

Dep

[wrmcclellan]

The part that leaves me thinking is the traction tires vs electrical contact. Every loco I have with traction tires, the rubber tire makes the wheel thicker than wheels without traction tires and thus lifts the other wheels on that side of the truck or loco off the track. This problem is particularly acute on 4 wheel units (ie trolleys) where sometimes the unit losses contact with the track due to the traction tire lifting the other wheels off the track.

I have also had several diesels where an idler gear broke essentially making the loco a single axle drive on that truck. In no case could the loco continue to pull anything until I replaced the idler gear.

For me the jury is still out. I hope for several more CTT reviews and results of long term tests.

[Mimbrogno]

I believe they've made the side frames easily removeable to facilitate traction tire replacement.

The fact of which clearly shows that they aren't very confident in the durability of the new drivetrain. This system could be really bad on 6 axle units if there isn't enough weight to keep the tires from spinning on the wheel. All in all I don't like the way Lionel is heading. Some products are nice, but they cost a bloody fortune.

I'll tell you something though, the best non-traction tire pullers I have are ones with coarse sintered iron treads. I know my old HO Athern engines really dig into the rails, even though their wheels get dirty rather fast.

Give me the old fasion drive of the 2332 (single motor) or the earliest 726 with the horizontal motor and dual worm gears. That one was the best, you could drop the divers right out without the need of a wheel puller or press.

I wish I could have seen the good ol' days!
Matthew Imbrogno
Mechanical Vollenteer, Arizona Railway Museum
www.azrymuseum.org

 

[chuck]

I believe they've made the side frames easily removeable to facilitate traction tire replacement.

[daan]

It does have one drawback though. It depends fully on it's rubber tyres and they are on both sides of the axles. Rubber tyres have the nasty habit to get loose on the inner side when driving on sharp curves. I have only rubberbands on one side of the locomotives, either in or out, but not inside and outside on one axle. When having to remove the rubber tyres on one side, there's not much drive left if only one axle is powered.

The older truck design had the rubber tyres only on one side of each truck, making it easy for the locomotive to handle sharp curves since one set of wheels (either in or outside) was able to slip across the track to handle the length distance between the in and outside rails of a curve. By powering only one axle and equip both sides with traction tyres, none of the wheels can slip across the track but the length distance between the tracks in a curve forces one of them to do so. This results in dislocation and excessive wear on the tyres, and when that happens, power is gone.

In theory, the newer truck design has the same amount of power, but on the long run on a layout with 031/042 curves I'm not enthousiastic about it. Therefore I'm very curious about the long term review they promised and hope they'll be testing the locomotive on smaller layouts.

[lionelsuperotrack]

The December 2006 issue of CTT has an interesting article (pages 62-64) featuring Lionel's brand new single powered axle system for its diesels. A comparison between the previous drive system which powered all wheels on a truck shows interesting results. Seems to me I prefer the older drive system, though the new system appears comparable in pulling power, or pretty darn close. Big change for Lionel. Be interesting to see how the market reacts.

Very best, Mike

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