O27 Shorting out Please Help!!!

[SOU Fan]

Hi,

 I have a friend that has some O27 from the 70's and he is having some problems with it.  He told me that it would spark and then the train would stop.  He asked me if I knew the problem, so i'm asking you guys since I know nothing about O27.

Thanks for any help,
dekruif

[msacco]

Need to be clearer on the term 027. Are you talking about track, switches, or small locos. There can mutliple interpretations. I think you're talking about locos here but not quite sure.

A little more specific and maybe we can help.

 

Mike S

[SOU Fan]

Sorry about that, I'm into N scale(and HO) so I assumed you would know what I meant.  I was talking about the engine and the track.  He said the enigne will throw sparks and then will stop.  I have not seen it but he said the ties are gray if that helps any.

 

-dekruif

[jimhaleyscomet]

The best place to start is with a thorough cleaning for the motor in mineral spirits followed by  complete lubrication.  After that it comes down to looking for loose wires especially on the roller pickups.

Jim H

[Birds]

As mentioned previously, cleaning is a good place to start.  It's possible that the sparking may be causing a momentary high amp load and causing a fuse to trip.

I had a new engine sparking and found that it was caused by a combination of dirt on the rails, and the track sections separating a bit (they are not permanently fixed yet).

The dirt on the rails also got onto the pick-up rollers of the engine and I had to clean those off too.

This situation did cause fuses to blow on my layout.  I had an in-line 7 amp fuse between my transformer and the rails.  At random intervals the fuse would blow (before I cleaned and checked the track segments).  I checked the track with a volt-ohm meter after removing the in-line fuse (before cleaning, etc.) and would find peak amp draws of 14-18 amps.

Cleaning and making sure the track segments were tight solved this.

[palallin]

Check all the paper insulators on the center rail of each piece of track.  They can wear just enough to make contact only when the weight of the engine is on the track.

[Anonymous]

Sorry about that, I'm into N scale(and HO) so I assumed you would know what I meant.  I was talking about the engine and the track.  He said the enigne will throw sparks and then will stop.  I have not seen it but he said the ties are gray if that helps any.

A little further explanation might help you.  The world of 'O' includes two types of track and three scales.

O and O27 track are both the same width and have the same center-rail.  O track is slightly taller than O27.  The standard O curve is 31 inches in diameter, while the standard O27 curve is 27 inches in diameter.  Most, but not all O engines and cars can operate on O27 track, provided they can tolerate the tighter curves.  O27 engines and cars can reliably run on O track.

O and O27 track can be mixed in the same system with some shimming.  Some people will build trunk lines with O but use O27 to build out yards and industrial sidings.  This means that some trains can't navigate some sidings, just like the real world.

The 'O' designation, when applied to engines and cars, means 48:1 (aka quarter inch to the foot) scale.  O27 uses a 64:1 (3/16th of an inch to the foot) scale.  O engines are substantailly larger than O27, and things look very odd if they are mixed on the same layout at the same time.

To make things more confusing, some cars, accesories, and scenery are built in a scale half way between, roughly 55:1.  These items are normally close enough that they can be used in both O and O27 scale layouts without appearing wildly out of proportion.

This might seem very odd to an HO or N hobbyist.  It is important to remember that HO and N were originally developed for the scale model railroad enthusiast whose goal was to simulate actual railroad operations with a high degree of accuracy.  O and O27 were originally aimed as toys for children - scale, accuracy, and realism were readily sacrificed for durability and fun.  The scale model railroader only came to the O world after it was well established in the toy market.

[lionelsoni]

Very little O27 is as small as 1/64.  Most of it is intermediate between that and 1/48, with length often out of proportion to the other dimensions.  The 2243 Santa Fe F3 is fully to 1/48 scale.  It was sold first as O27, then later as O.

Much traditional O is also undersized.  Lionel sold many pieces, particularly freight cars, without distinguishing between the two lines; and some locomotives were sold with different model numbers as both O and O27.  The steam turbines are a good example.

Beyond the differences in the track, Lionel used the "O27" label to a considerable extent to mean lower cost and lower quality.

[phillyreading]

Not all the O gauge or 027 accessories are 1/48 scale, some are closer to 1/40 scale while some are closer to 1/55 scale, examples are the Lionel highway crossing gates and lights from the 1960's to about the 1990's.  Some locomotives are more to scale than others, once again price comes into play-the more expensive a unit is usually the closer it is to the 1/48 scale, it don't matter if diesel or steam or electric models.  This practice is generally used in the model train industry today for O gauge & 027 trains, all manufacturers DO this!!

Only the more recent accessories might be closer to scale, one example is DZ Industries that makes crossing gates & lights for O gauge as this company's product is more to scale than most other companies.

Lee F.