Lionel TPC or Powermaster for Conventional Locos?

[jimhaleyscomet]

I currently run an old ZW through fuses and DCS for my MTH PS2 engines.  I also have TMCC attached for my TMCC engines.  I would like to regulate the voltage through my Cab 1 for conventional locomotives as the Cab1 knob is easier to use than the DCS thumbwheel.  Should I use a powermaster, TPC300 or TPC400 to get the best low speed performance from my conventional locomotives (mostly new stuff or MPC era).  Would a powermaster go to a lower voltage than the DCS (minimum 5 volts or off) can regulate?   Of course I would like to spend as little as possible!

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Jim H

[chuck]

TPC 300 is probably you're best choice or possibly consider replacing the older ZW with a newer model.  PM's are cheap but they have problems controlling some of the "transitional" model modern electric trains because they use a modified waveform output that messes up some of the early digital reverse units/sound boards.  TPC has 80/200/400 speed steps and 1-2 volt starting range.  New ZW has 32/64/96 steps but I don't know about it's start up voltage when used with a  CAB-1.  TPC and ZW do used modified waveform but it does not interfer with the engine's electronics.

[ChiefEagles]

Jim , I'm running mine with two PW ZW's.  Run them through the fast acting circuit breaker box [I built].  I have by-passed the DCS for TMCC.  I do not use my DCS remote for TMCC.  Using the DCS remote "handicaps" the TMCC features.  The Cab1 is better for operating the TMCC.  With a TPC [probably 300], you can use the boost and brake button as "steps" to raise and lower the voltages for conventional engines.  I now use my DCS and its remote to run MTH PS2 engines only.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Thank you Chuck and Chief.  It looks like I want at least the TPC300.  I am not planning on running TMCC via DCS.  I like having multiple remotes (ie a control for each engine). The Cab1 ease of use (especiallly boost, brake) is the main reason I want to control conventional with it.   Now I just have to decide if I should spring for a new ZW instead!

Jim H

[jimhaleyscomet]

Thanks again for all your help.  I just sprung for the new dual 190W Lionel ZW on ebay.  $320 shipped.  Now comes the wait!

Jim H

[Anonymous]

Here comes another potentially foolish question from a clueless re-beginner but ... so having a newer ZW makes PowerMaster or one of the TMCs unnecessary? Or as a new guy am I getting ahead of myself?

[chuck]

The new ZW has incorporated into it the equivalent of four "Improved" PowerMasters.  The inprovements include support for 180 watts for each channel and a modified waveform that doesn't cause issues with some of the sound boards.

A TPC can handle 300 or 400 watts per block vrs 180 for the ZW
A TPC has 80/200/400 speed steps vrs 32/64/96 for the ZW
A TPC can be addressed as an ENG or as a TR so you can save TR's for MU/Lashup purposes
A TPC has macro button support to more easily control PS-1 and PS-2 locos in conventional mode

A TPC can only be controlled by a CAB-1/Command base, A ZW will work fine without them

The devices have oerlapping functions.  The one that is best for your use depends on your needs.

[laz 57]

LMACRAIL,

  The new ZW with the two 180 watt power blocks and with the TMCC Cab1 you can run any engine conventioally buy using the TR button.  By pressing the TR 1 2 3 or 4 and adjusting the speed control, red knob, will put power to each individual track in turn will power the engines in conventional mode.  You will also have control of bell and whistle and direction.  Hope this helps.

laz57

[jimhaleyscomet]

The clincher for me was seeing how easy new zw's run our conventional trains at our HTOS (Houston Tinplate Operators Society) layout.  I considered the TPC's but really wanted the handles (to limit speed) and the modern circuit breaker (not sure if TPC had that).  We set the handles only part way up and then let the kids have at the trains using cab 1's.  They love the interactivity and we love the trains staying on the track no matter how fast the kids try to make them go!

Do the difference in speed steps show up in conventional operation, command operation, or both?

Jim H

[chuck]

You can also set up starting voltage and max voltage on a TPC.  It also has fast acting circuit protection.    Start up and max voltage are just done through the CAB-1.  It is easier to do with the ZW, turn handle, done.

With original Command Base, the variable speed steps are only available under conventional control.  The new Legacy/TMCC-2 systtem allows access in both modes.

TPC's are really meant for high power usage or folks with a limited number of MTH loco's.  The TPC's allow access to macro buttons to trigger features on PS-1 and PS-2 loco's.  If you have a bunch of PS-2 engines, you will want to get DCS to control them.

[okiechoochoo]

So which is best for running can motored engines such as Williams in conventional, the TPC 300/400s or the new ZW or does it matter.  I had thought the TPC would be best for control but I will be sitting on one spot so the ZW would be fine if it controlled them as well.  I have a lot of Williams engines and some postwar Lionel.

[jimhaleyscomet]

For direct control via handles you can not beat a ZW or similar two handle transformer.   The TPC's become important when you want remote conventional control and/or TMCC control.

Jim H

[okiechoochoo]

I understand the best handle operation is with a ZW but my question really is about the smoothest conventional control of slow speeds like with Lionel and Williams can motored locomotives.  Which control method is best from a control viewpoint, the modern ZW or a TPC setup.  I can set in a chair or walk around, it really doesn't matter, I just want the best slow speed control.  Thanks

[chuck]

The ZW at max control offers 96 steps.  This is close to the standard resolution of the TPC.  The TPC can start at an extremely low starting voltage, under 2 volts.  I don't have a new ZW to test.  To be completely honest, I can't tell the difference between 96 steps and the TPC's base 80.  If you up the TPC to 200 or 400 steps, you get extremely fine control, BUT, you'l be turning the red knob a lot.  I have TPC's and like them, but I wouldn't steer someone away from a ZW if it does what they want/need.