New v. Used Motive Power

[Dr. John]

The way I see it, buying locomotives for your layout is a lot like buying a car. You have a choice of buying new or used, with similar pros and cons.

Like a new car, if you buy a new loco it has almost no mileage (maybe a couple of laps on a test track at the factory), fresh paint, and usually a warranty. Of course, you generally pay more. (But don't you love that new loco smell! )

Buying used (car or toy loco) you have some mileage, maybe some dings, scratches, and perhaps weathering of paint. And you generally pay less than you would new. (Noticeable exceptions would be a 1957 Corvette or a prewar Lionel scale Hudson.)

When buying new, you generally have the company backing the product. When buying used, the buyer best beware!

Personally, I have mostly used locos (because I favor Lionel postwar and Marx pre & postwar). I also tend to buy more modern offerings used when possible to save money.  I do have some Williams and RMT that I have bought new.

How about you? Do you buy new?, used? or a mixture?

[cnw1995]

Good question, Dr. John.  I have mostly old and very little new - and that new stuff only more basic-level ie Williams-produced. The biggest variable for me is cost, seconded by 'robustness' :  'used' in my experience is less expensive in the acquiring and I've been fortunate to be able to find things that are running. The reason I bought that 520 is it  had been serviced.  My 248 from 1930 runs best of everything. That said, my last brand new acquistion - the Williams GG-1 also runs like a top.

I know circuit boards are seemingly part of every engine in the last ten years, but I hate 'em.

Interestingly, in terms of rolling stock other than engines, I've a few more new items.

[dbaker48]

I have to admit most of my stuff is new.  Not complaining but the used items I have purchased were from fairly reasonable sized collectors, and took advantage of my niavete'.   I paid premium +, for items that were in not very good condition.  But only myself to blame.  The items I see at most train meets are either premium prices or higher, or really need a lot of work.  Occassionally I have done OK at the auction, but of course everyone else has the same idea, and sometimes its more trouble than what its worth.

With the new stuff I try to be very selective, and the anticipation, excitment, I find very gratifying.  I havn't regretted ANY new item I have purchased, and feel the price is usually somewhat justified with the initial joy of acquisition.  Of course the same could be said for the used stuff, but it is a little less anticipated, but great exhileration of getting a Prize at a good price.

I applaud both Dr.John and Doug for your recent purchases and certainly looks like you both did well,  I am watching eBay, some of the forum auctions a little more closely so maybe with a positive experience or too, things could change.

[ChiefEagles]

Depends on what is ment by new and used.  I bought most of my new used diesels, used.   They are what I consider in the new catagory as they are modern.  Some were used and LN and some were new [period] but previously owned.  I will say, I have saved a lot of money [sounds like my wife on clothes sales at Macy's, Belks or elsewhere] by letting someone else own it before me.  So far, I have had good experiences.  Have been buying some Post War rolling stock lately.  All pretty good considering the prices I paid [except for one item, which can be fixed].   Jim A has gotten some great bargins lately on PW.  Now that he has learned to clean and lube those "junkers", he is really in "hog heaven".  Anyway, it has to be a good deal before "Squeeky" will buy.

[phillyreading]

Most of my locomotives are used or bargain priced Williams if new.  I did break down and buy a new MTH T1 Reading steam loco for about $1000.00 but it was an engine that I really wanted.  I like the quality of Williams and the price, no big deal if it don't have all the newest whistles and bells or command control. 

Just got MTH's DCS system and from what I have been able to do or not do I feel that command control is over-rated and not really needed. Have not been able to run a conventional engine with DCS as yet, have read the instruction manual a few times and played with the remote control.  Most of the stuff that command control can do is found on most new transformers like the Z1000 by MTH, uncoupling, whistle and bell.

When buying used stuff like a car you need to test run it first and see what it does. My favorites are post war because they are easy to work on.

Lee F.

[Jumijo]

I just buy what appeals to me. If an item is old and I want it, I'll look for a good deal (because I'm squeaky), but just as importantly, I look for a reputable seller. Buying used stuff is always a bit of a crap shoot, so I try to strengthen my odds by only dealing with sellers with a strong reputation, especially on eBay.

New stuff is great because it has a warranty and is clean and blemish free. I've been very impressed with Williams products and warranty service. They do it right. That type of treatment weighs heavily in my purchasing decision.

I'll give ya $30 for that 2056. Squeak squeak!

[ChiefEagles]

Just got MTH's DCS system and from what I have been able to do or not do I feel that command control is over-rated and not really needed. Have not been able to run a conventional engine with DCS as yet, have read the instruction manual a few times and played with the remote control.  Most of the stuff that command control can do is found on most new transformers like the Z1000 by MTH, uncoupling, whistle and bell.

Lee F.

Lee, I found the same thing.  So for a while I ran my PS2 enignes with DCS and my conventionals with the transformer.  I later added TMCC and the TPC and found that the conventionals ran better with the TMCC and Cab1.  For future purchases, you might think of adding the TMCC Cab 1 and Command base and a TPC.  As for Williams, can't beat the quality and they run forever with a forever warranty.  Enjoy.

[phillyreading]

ChiefEagles,

Thanks for the input on DCS.  Would adding TMCC to my DCS base help or would it confuse the remote control signals?

I have several Williams locomotives and really like the quality, have not had a problem other than trying to run two SD-45's together and Williams told me what to do by email. The second SD-45 had a basic Forward-nuetral-Reverse unit so I bypassed the reverse unit and have the second SD-45 running in forward only, the problem I was having is that both SD-45's would not run in the same direction at the same time. Also have three GP-9's by Williams and ran out of track space trying to load down the GP-9's with rolling stock. My layout is 8ft by 11ft.

Lee F.

[jimhaleyscomet]

When I purchase "used" on e-bay I rarely get a good deal.  Living in Houston E-bay is my only chance to find a wide variety of stuff not from a dealer.  I have been much more fortunate buying "New" loco's or sets that were shelf queens or that the box was opened.  I have also had good luck purchasing completely new stuff at reduced prices. 

I recently purchased a shelf queen UP williams Dash 9 for about $100 shipped.  Not a huge savings over Ma and Pa's prices.  When it comes in we will see how well I did.

Jim H

 

 

 

[ChiefEagles]

Lee, I bought the DCS first as I found a real good price on some PS2 engines.  Ran theat for a while.  Got some TMCC engines at a good price.  Added the TMCC Command Base to operate TMCC engines with DCS remote.  Did not have all the TMCC features this way.  Got a Cab1.  Got to using it and love it.  I was still running the conventionals with the transformer [leaving the DCS on fixed voltage and varying the voltage with the transformer handle] as PW whistles did not respond well to the DCS remote.  Also voltages suddenly ramped up with the remote.  I then got a TPC and added it [disconnecting my cable between the TMCC Command Base and the DCS unit].  Once I learned to use the TPC and the Cab1 together, I found that the conventionals responded better to the Cab1 and whistles seemed to blow better too.  The only time I use the DCS unit now is to run a PS2 engine [which I now have very few of, got rid of them].  I've got 12 TMCC engines now [4 I converted] and several conventionals.  Each person has his own preference.  

[phillyreading]

ChiefEagles,

Thank you for the input again on TMCC and DCS, for now I am going to stay with what I just bought. From what you and a couple other people on the forum have mentioned I might be selling my DCS-2 system in the near future and going back to basic control via transformer output and DPDT switches for power to the tracks and sidings. Also using insulated blocks for block signal light control.

Like you say each person has his own preferance, sorry but so far remote control systems leave me unimpressed!!

Lee F.

[Dr. John]

Interesting comments!

Don and Jim H, I have to admit that there is a risk in buying used, especially on Ebay. I've been fortunate to only have one used engine turn out to be a dog (fortunately, I was able to repair it). I am careful to only buy from vendors with a better than 99% rating. I read the description carefully and avoid the one's that say "I don't know much about trains . . ."

Chief, you make a good point. There's brand new and then there's never-used stuff sitting on some guy's shelf. Case in point, I sold two engines on the 'Bay this week - both purchased new by me several years ago (one HO, on O) that had never been out of the box. The HO model (while new) has been out of production for a few years. I made a very good sale on it and someone is (I hope) very happy with a hard-to-find loco. The other (a Williams GP-9) I sold well below list. It was at least two years old, but will be "new" to the buyer. It was even in the original shipping box.

I buy more used than new, mainly because I like older trains, but also because I have a limited hobby budget. I never have (and never will) pay $1,000 for a loco. I have no problem with anyone that does, but I have more fun with an engine with a little "history" that still runs like a champ.

[ChiefEagles]

Dr. John, understand the budget.  If I quit buying trains and rolling stock, I would not have to fly around the country on this part-time job thing.  Woth it I guess.  Get to meet some great folks and get paid too. 

Lee, that sounds good because that "floats your boat".  Do what YOU like not not someone else.  Good luck.

[dwiemer]

Great topic Dr. John,

      As mentioned, it is all a matter of preference.  One thing about the older used market, is that with minimal electrical mechanical skills, most problems can be fixed.  Most toy train manufacturers have produced solid, good running equipment.  For me, I like the Post War, and even some prewar items and it is increadible that something my father played with as a child still runs in great shape and I will be passing on to my young son.

     I do have some new stuff.  I have a Williams GG1 and some Beeps, some MPC, etc, and I guess these will continue to run and bring a smile to my and my children's face.  I don't have any MTH engines, but I have seen some of the new offerings and they are impressive with detail, but I am more into the play value.  For me, it is running a conventional loco, throwing the turnout switches, and bringing the layout to life. 

     I guess it is a mindset, kind of like the ones who buy a new engine or set and put it still sealed in the box on a shelf.  They still get their own enjoyment out of it, and for them that is great.  For me, I want something that I won't get too upset if my 4 year old runs a little too fast for a turn and launches it off the table. (Or, in the Chief's case, across the carpet. 

     Anyway, It is great that we can all come together with different tastes and styles, yet for the love of trains.

Dennis

[Joe Hohmann]

As of now, all of my engines are conventional, as my layout is small, and I'm very happy with it, as is. My 5 postwar engines were all bought at small train shows over the last 20 years. Have some no-frills new ones from K-Line, Williams, RMT, and a Lionel Docksider. If I ever get a TMCC "scale-size" engine, it would be to run on our club's modular layout, which is HUGE. But this is unlikely, because I enjoy doing module scenics, and I'm happy just to watch other member's trains run. Joe

[Blueberryhill RR]

Dr. John,

I have purchased most of my engines new with the exception of one , which I purched from an old geezer, down south somewhere. I find that I like the excitement of something new and the coverage of a warranty. I have had great luck with Williams and any problems have been solved quickly. I have a few used Lionel that I found in the trash. Work great now. I envy some of you who have found used things, in great shape and that run well. I may take that chance someday.

Chuck

[otftch]

I buy both.New is nice but I like the challenge of repairing a junker.I've had good luck on ebay but I'm buying expecting to do repairs.I've bought a couple of basket cases that have turned out to be real runners.Modern electronics don't bother me since Williams has offered their reverse boards.Now I can pick up a used PS-1 and have it running almost immediately.Sure there's no sounds but I have enough with sounds and the Williams boards are almost unbreakable.I like the Lionel Alcos and have most made in Santa-fe markings but I've pre-ordered the new Lionel Santa-Fe GP-20.

Ed

[riverrailfan]

NOS (new old stock) bought a few engines 7 to 10 years old from stores selling at swap meets at a steal. Mostly buy used with little run time.

[Anonymous]

Living in a rural area (Montana) minimizes choice & selection. We being the fourth largest state geographically and 47th. or 48th, population wise vastly reduces purchasing options.

Certainly perfer building relationship with LHS but in most cases non-existant,so road trips,train shows are alternatives along with mailorder & auctions ala E-Bay.

Risky business,most of my train buddies have tipped over leaving a huge gap in friendships & commradre..

With my experiance in wholesale-retail the last frontier would be a  toy train venture in Big Sky Country where fence posts out number people 55-1.

Toy trains have nourished me in good times & bad a lot of you relate,somehow we find the ingredients to keeping the hobby fun & innovative.

The only two measuring sticks regarding toy trains has always remained constant

Is it still fun and is the layout done. The answers are simply YES & NO

[daan]

Since warranty in Holland means nothing more then the word on the paper, I buy almost everything secondhand or from store outlets on the internet. If it fails it's just bad luck. It needs a new battery, some cleaning and maintanance, but in only one occasion (a 36 dollar s2 from K-line) I needed to do major repairs. (new motors and new e-unit). Even the 10 year old and sometimes well used protosound loco's run like a champ.