Williams Engines/w TMCC&TPC300

[cnjcomp]

My Williams engines rocket down the track when I try to control them with a TMCC/TPC300 in conventional mode.  TPC is set to track 0 conventional mode. When I hit the direction button on CAB1 engine goes to neutral with no light. When I hit button second time engine sits still again with no light. If I move CAB1 throttle a small amount,engine then rockets down the track.  Any answers??  I've reset TPC back to factory specs, adjusted stall speed,high end speed but nothing works.

Thanks  Joe

 

 

[phillyreading]

Does the Williams engine have TMCC installed in it?   If no TMCC don't run it on a track with TMCC being used as this is normal for non-TMCC engines to take off like that.

Read the instruction manual for controlled voltage output to operate non-TMCC engines, they function a whole lot differant than TMCC equipped engines.

Not sure if TMCC does this but I know that DCS control supplies full power to the track and supplies an electronic signal to the engine that is to pick up that signal thereby controlling that engine.

Lee F.

[okiechoochoo]

I have heard that the Williams engines take off fast unless rewired in series which slows them down.  I had been told that a TPC in conventional mode would control a Williams at slow speed but perhaps this is not the case.  I would be curious to know if there is anyway to slow the Williams down.  How about Williams steam engines that only have one motor.  They cannot be rewired.  Are they rocket ships also.

[chuck]

Something else is going on.  I use TPC-300's in conventional mode and when the pattern of behavior described here happens, something is either wired or programmed wrong.  If the cable between the TPC and the command base isn't wired properly, the commands are not being passed to the unit.  If the TPC is programmed incorrectly, it will apply full power to the track on power up.  I would suggest looking at the basic wiring and making sure that the command base is talking to the TPC and then I'd test the set up on a different loco.  If the other loco behaves the same, reprogram the TPC and try setting start up and max voltages.

[Buckeye Riveter]

I use the TPC-300 in conventional mode, too.   Chuck is right about the TPC putting full power to the track if programmed wrong.  My old Lionel went flying the first time, but luckily did not hit the floor.

[middivrail]

I have a Williams 773 Hudson and I have to rotate the red knob increasing voltage just to get it moving. Than once it has started to move I have to turn down the voltage because it will be traveling to fast. I'm using TMCC with a TPC 300. Other trains will work fine in conventional mode but it seems some Williams trains need a higher voltage to get them to move. Or they need a lot of running to loosen them up???

[okiechoochoo]

I have a Williams 773 Hudson and I have to rotate the red knob increasing voltage just to get it moving. Than once it has started to move I have to turn down the voltage because it will be traveling to fast. I'm using TMCC with a TPC 300. Other trains will work fine in conventional mode but it seems some Williams trains need a higher voltage to get them to move. Or they need a lot of running to loosen them up???

when you turn it back down does it run at a reasonable speed?

[middivrail]

Once I turn down the voltage after its moving it will travel at a decent speed for a non-TMCC loco. I hope once it runs awhile the voltage just to get it moving will be a lower voltage.

[cnjcomp]

Thanks guys, I'll try your suggestions during the week.  The engine in question is a Williams 2056, so it only has one motor.  I looked at the wiring diagram that came with the TPC300, and all looks correct.  I've even tried setting the TPC to 400 steps and still it moves like a rocket. Looking at the TPC track indicator, when the direction button is pressed the light does not come back to the same intensity as it was before pressing. Also I've noticed that a new Lionel Pennsy Trainsounds tender's bell will begin to ring all by itself on occasion.  My track is fastrack, and is all brand new.

Joe

 

[phillyreading]

Don't know what the problem is with the Williams but as I asked before did you have TMCC installed in it?   If TMCC is not installed the bottom line is not to use the locomotive on a TMCC circuit.

As for the tender's problem you may want to read the Lionel instruction manual for the TMCC again to see what might be the problem.  Just to mention; 1) Is your track wired according to TMCC instructions?  2) You may need to supply a better signal to the track, use a larger size wire than the supllied Lionel wires.  3) Are you using a buss wire instead of using a terminal block connection?  4) Have you soldered the wires instead of using wire nuts, Remember go by the instruction manual!!  If all else fails call the manufacturer.

Lee F.

[Anonymous]

Williams,wild,wicked & wierd,expreiancing situation with Williams newer 44 tonner model BNSF 650.Using a K-Line power chief 120 v transformer engine operates terrific for a period of time ,then takes off like a banshee no control at all except power switch.

Change to Lionel transformers unit behaves normally re-install K-Line maybe she will maybe she won;t.. Transformer seems to have no difficulty operating any other motive units just the 44 tonner,could ugly factor in the equation?

Ooops I lied it does occassionally make my K-Line 2037 steamer get bent a little out of shape.litterally,whats going on?

All engines run good when attached to my 4 other transformers.

Presently due to layout constuction I haven't done any sophisticated wiring as yet phasing etc.but in tests units are run individually with only one power source involved.....HELP

[phillyreading]

Welcome kidcurey1,

Sounds like the K-Line transformer is the problem, try another transformer with the Williams.  Williams makes thier own transformer now, so maybe a Williams transformer will help.

Williams has good quality but has a problem or two with Lionel switches(6-23011 switch, never use with Williams), but this is the first time I have heard of a Williams engine not liking a basic power supply.   Williams has a problem or two with TMCC and DCS systems, does not want to run properly with remote control track sysytems even in conventional mode on the remote system, can take off like a rocket.

I have a DCS-2 system and I am not impressed with what it can do, have not been able to run in conventional mode as yet. 

Don't know much about TMCC so I can't comment, just hope that it is better than DCS!

Lee F.

[okiechoochoo]

From several people I have talked to, the Williams engines run just fine in conventional mode with a Lionel Cab 1 and a TPC 300/400.  

[phillyreading]

What is a TPC 300/400?  What system does it work with?

From what I have learnd this week I feel sorry that I bought the DCS-2 system, so far it only works with my newest locomotive by MTH.

Lee F.

[chuck]

TPC's are "Track Power Controllers".  They were originally developed by a company called IC Controls that Lionel eventually bought out.  They allow you to control up to 300 or 40 watts per power block, have phenomenal power stepping/control and have macro support to send conventional commands to PS-1 and PS-2 locomotives.

A DCS TIU will allow you to control two of it's output channels in conventional mode but you can only pump 180 watts per block, have 32 speed steps, and a fairly high starting voltage.

[cnjcomp]

Well, I've tried again.  Checked all wiring, read the instructions again, and re-set the TPC300 unit.

I can get the engine to move forward, but the problems start once you push the direction button on the CAB1.  You can hear the e-unit click in the engine, but it will not come out of neutral.  Keep clicking, and evenyually the engine will just take off like a rocket without moving the throttle.

One thing I noticed was that the screws for the DAT line between the TPC and Command base are way too short to screw into the command base. Other than that everything else looks fine.

Guess I'll call Lionel to find out if they have a solution.

 

[jimhaleyscomet]

I find it helps to hold the direction button down a little longer while changing directions (Using DCS).

Jim H

[chuck]

Does this happen with any other conventional locomotive?  I only hit the DIR button after I throttle down or hold the brake button down until a loco comes to a full halt.  The DIR button should cause a loco to come to a full stop, usually rather suddenly/abruptly.  It normaly takes two presses of DIR to actually reverse direction.  First press is nuetral, second is opposite direction.  The engine shouldn't move until you hit boost or advance the throttle.

[cnjcomp]

Chuck,  I tryed it with a Lionel 2025 and same problem. Unit will not reverse,then just takes off.

I've noticed that the headlight is rather dull when the direction button is pushed.  I expect something is either wrong with the DAT cable, or the TPC300 unit. Its possible that not enough power is being applied to sequence the e unit.  When either engine is run just off the transformer. They run flawlessly.

[jimhaleyscomet]

If you are in conventional mode shouldn't the light go completely out when you change direction?  On my DCS variable channels the lights go out (including on track lock on lights) completely when I press and hold the direction button.

Jim H

[chuck]

All lights should cut out when you do a DIR change.  Current should drop to zero to trigger E unit.  You then should need to increase power once the E-unit has tripped into the opposite direction.  You may have a bad cable but it's possible the TPC is the problem.

[okiechoochoo]

cnjcomp,

Just curious, does your Williams 773 run ok off the ZW without the TPC.  Are you using the new modern ZW or postwar ZW.

[ChiefEagles]

Bet you have the minimum voltage set on it.  TPC will completely kill voltage if you hit the AUX1 and then 0.  If not, you have a problem.  I do not run my Command Base with the DCS cable attached.  I have the TPC connected to the Command Base port. 

[cnjcomp]

Well, I found the problem.  It seems the cable between the TPC300 and the command base was defective.  I returned it, and got a new one.  This cable is a bit different from the original in that it fits the buss plug on the command base better, and actually has screws long enough to secure it.  The TPC300 works great with both my pw ZW and my 1033. The unit will  not work with my new Williams 180 watt transformer. This same transformer also causes the air whistles on my pw Lionel equipment to blow continuously .