Gripes about Electronics in Engines

[Anonymous]

Okay, here we go...

My experiences may not be common to others, maybe they are, but I need to vent.  I have owned 12 MTH engines.  All were the "proto" (version 1) command control.  All but 2 did not work (even after some were repaired).  I had simpler electronics put in them to use them.  I only own 4 of them now, and am VERY careful when starting up the non-modified ones (for fear of blowing up the computers).  I have replaced the rechargeable batteries with the "super capacitors".

AS for my experiences with Lionel's TMCC.  I used to have the full control system, it was extremely defective.  Sent it back to Lionel, they found many problems, replace the entire system.  Upon getting it back, I took it right to the dealer and traded it for a post-war train set I wanted.  I only run postwar transformers now, no power equipment that does not put out a sine wave to the trains (no weird waveforms to confuse the engines electronics).  I have some Lionel engines with TMCC, all do not run right in conventional. They do a lot of wierd things, such as starting out in random states, not forward as they are supposed to.  I have a dealer demo SD-70 I could not get to run right, even after a new computer had been installed by Lionel.  I ripped the guts out and it is a dummy!, much to the dismay of our local dealer.

I love Williams, no problems.  Also no problems with the older K-line engines (I own several).  Can't say about newer K-line engines with sound, don't own any.

 

I will NOT buy any command-equipped or sound equipped engines any more.  In the last 2 years I have not bought any new Lionel or MTH.  I am learning to appreciate older Marx trains. 

Any comments?

[Frank53]

Any comments?

sure - I share your view,

although I do not have the first hand experience with command systems, as I have not, and doubt I ever will, bought (buy) a train requiring a command system. It's post war or not at all for me.

[Pennvalley]

Using TMCC here for a year or so, so far so good.

[cnw1995]

I'm sorry about your experiences with more complicated engines. I'm personally an aficionado of the simpler ones. I think you'll find there is a complete dichotomy between lovers of the latest electronics and those who detest 'em for all sorts of reasons.

[bomber]

I share your concern, but having worked in the Information Technology Equip. field for many years, I am very concerned about spikes and surges and the effect they have on modern components.  To keep it simple, I own over 24 MTH locomotives/diesels with Proto1/QSI and Proto 2 sounds.  I run MTH Z-4000 transformers - BUT - I also hook up a QSI Power Guard while running proto engines.  I made the mistake once of testing a friends Z750 transformer with a Proto1 (QSI variant) Hudson.  Needless to say, I blew the voltage regulator.  QSI fixed the problem at no charge and instructed me to ALWAYS run power guard.  I found out that many transformers, including early MTH 750's are susseptible to surges.  Spikes and surges above 20 VDC can fry components.  While running Lionel and older transformers with non-electronic components, I hooked up the power guard to see what would happen.  The surge lite came on numerous times with these transformers.

Your installation of the new super capacitors is very helpful.  Who in the world can remember how old or what state of charge the battery is in.  Who wants to check and change batteries all the time.  I also am converting my proto engines to super-caps.

You might want to check QSI and see if they still sell the Power Guard.  That was a cheap investment that paid for itself many times.

 

Bomber

[lionelsoni]

It's fairly easy to convert an electronic locomotive to e-unit operation.  The 671-50 and 726-51 e-units (with the internal spring) can be very useful when there is not enough room to mount them vertically.

[wallyworld]

I agree 100% with you. I cannot think of another product in the consumer market in this price range ( aka proto 1 engines) where you had to go out and buy your own work around rather than have the problem resolved by a product recall. It's okay if you have only one engine to retrofit a capacitor into but in my case and others we have 5+ engines to repair...for the cost of that I could have put something really nice on my layout. Once bitten twice shy. Never again. This months Classic Toy Trains ..a Proto 2 fried..on a subway car. No thank you. Williams is my future supplier..the KISS method works for me (Keep It Simple Stupid)

[Joe Hohmann]

I'm still in "conventional mode" since the thought of a new $800.+ engine "going on the fritz" is too much to bear. I think current owners of this stuff are far too "forgiving" with their "oops" and "oh well" attitudes. Joe

[pbjwilson]

I Think the MTH proto 1and proto 2 engines are great. I have had minor problems with them, but nothing that a little fiddling around wouldnt fix. A loose wire connection, a worn out battery, stuff like that.

It does seem like alot of people have had problems with them though. I can understand why you would go with a  conventional engine after al the problems you had.

Oddly all the real problems I've had are with Lionel engines, command and conventional.  It's really odd how different people have different luck with the same products.

I think in HO and N scales the problems are even worse. Seems like I was always tearing apart engines to get them to run well.

Stick with what makes you happy and best of luck.

And as far as Marx...Ya Baby!

 

[otftch]

I've also had nothing but problems with electronics.I now buy no new engines with electronics.I buy used at shows.For thirty dollars you can buy an e-unit from Williams.Its electronic but trouble free.Forward and reverse,nothing else.Your engines work just like any other Williams for twenty minutes worth of work. If you find a used engine you like at a show you don;t have to worry about it working.I now have eight MTH engines and have converted about fifteen for others who are all satisfied.

                                                           Ed

[cmrj]

 I  like the electronic's , It's like buying a car some of us own Ford some own GM or Dodge, some own Toyota. We all say we would never buy another make, and talk about the problem's we had with another make we owned year's ago.
                                                    Have fun   Mike