What scale???

[emptyhook53]

Here's the background.  I have always wanted to build a model railroad but other things--mostly life and other interests got in the way.  It is just the wife and myself now as the two children have mostly moved out.  My favorite wife and I are in our mid 50"s.  We are building a new house with everything on one floor except for what is to be my trainroom.  It is a bonus room above the garage that is wired with a 20 amp circuit and measures 19'8" by 10'. 

Here is the problem--I thought I wanted to go with an HO layout and have purchased some items.  However, my father gave me a Lionel set when I was two (1955) and I still have it and set it up at Christmas and other times as things allow.  While waiting for our current house to sell and the new one to be finished (target date 10/1/06), I started looking around on the net and going to train stores and discovered that I really like the new Lionel stuff--very realistic.  It would seem that one could build a layout that was fairly realistic.  Also, it is not so small (older eyes). 

I was wondering if any of you have had to make that decision?  It is a nice problem to have but there is not enough room to do both--one or the other is going to get shortchanged.  I'm not so deep into HO I can't get most of my money back.  Realisticly, I think I have room for a 12 X 8 U with the legs of the U being either 4 or 5 feet wide. 

Questions:

1.  Would that be big enough for an O scale layout?

2.  Can an O gauge layout be made to look proto typical--within reason?  ( I do like some of the accessories from Lionel that are different (i.e. burning switchhouse, colvert loader, etc.)

3.  Can fasttrack be weathered to look a little more realistic?

4.  What are some of the pros and cons with O gauge--with HO that I might be missing?

5. Given the size of my space, could you recommend a different configuration?

5.  Where is a good place(s) to see track plans for O scale?

I'm sure I could come up with a million other questions but I'll save them for later.  I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter.  Keep in mind that I am a novice with a very limited understanding of wiring etc. (probably just enough to get into serious trouble).  Also, when you respond, try and give me some of the reasoning that went behind your decision with your own layout. 

Thanks much,

Jerry

 

 

 

 

[chuck]

You can run a high rail layout in that space unless you want to run modern scale equipment tha will require a pole barn to support 12-24 foot diameter curves to accomodate 80'+ cars and locomotives.

Yes you can weather FastTrack by painting the sides of the rails "rust" and apply a wash to the ballast.

There are a number of beautifully done Hi rail layouts out there, not all of them are overly large:

http://www.cherelvalleyrailroad.com/
(Ok this one is large)

http://norm.beesky.com/

http://public.fotki.com/JimTT/new_york_central/

[DSchmitt]

Here are the two web sites of magazines devoted to of O gauge (3 rail).  They feature many articles and nice layouts ranging from toy to near scale appearance.  For small spaces, a major advantage of 3 rail over 2 rail is the equipment will operate on smaller radius curves..

http://www.trains.com/ctt/   Classic Toy Trains

http://ogaugerr.com/    O Gauge Railroading

The two sites below are O scale (2 rail) magazines but still helpfull to a 3 railer

http://www.oscalemag.com/  O Scale Trains  -  has a column "Confessions of a Highrailer"  devoted to scale appearance 3 rail

http://www.oscalenews.com/  48/ft O Scale News

[Anonymous]

In my view, it kind of depends on what you want your layout to be.

You have a finite amount of space to work in--not terribly small and not overly large--so I would definitely recommend going with one scale or the other.

If you plan to build a layout complete with a theme, a number of structures, and a decent amount of scenery, you might want to consider HO because you'll simply be able to get more into that same amount of space.  That, after all, is one reason why HO remains the most popular model railroading scale, by far.  And, of course, since it is the most popular, that also leads to more variety in equipment and accessories being available--an important consideration if you have a particular theme in mind.

If you're drawn to just running trains, can do without some of the "open space" that HO would provide,  and just want to take advantage of some of the technological advances that have been added to O gauge trains in recent years--and are not bothered by the oversize track and that center rail--there's certainly a lot of stuff available in O gauge these days.  And there's also the availability of those operating accessories you mentioned.

The overwhelming number of folks here will, of course, recommend O gauge because that's what they model in.  Ask the same question on "Model Railroader's" forum, and you'll likely be advised to go with HO.

Selecting the scale that's really right for you is really a very personal decision, as well it should be.  After all, it's YOUR hobby, and only you know what you hope to get from it.  Others can offer all sorts of opinions, but they are just that, and they're normally based almost solely on what the individual offering the opinion actually selected for himself.  Every scale has its own set of advantages and limitations, so there's really no free ride where you can get everything for all purposes.  And despite what some might assert, there really is no "best" scale, or a one-size-fits-all scale that works for every situation and every need and desire.

At least that's how I see it!

[Joe Hohmann]

One "happy compromise" could be a "O" Christmas layout. This would satisfy the "nostalgia urge" one month a year. If you're into "operating", "HO" may be best. If you mainly like to see trains running (like I do), go with "O". Joe

[emptyhook53]

Thanks for the suggestions.  Appreciate your time.

Jerry

 

[Geno]

Sounds like you've got plenty of room to build a nice sized O gauge layout. If I only had a 20 x 10 space in which to build my layout, I'd consider a 'dogbone' shaped layout with a double track main, and some elevated sections to allow bridges, hills, and scenic opportunities.

As far as track goes, Fastrack, Gargraves or Atlas would both make the layout look more realistc, as well as using 063 or 072 curves.

I prefer O to HO because it has just that much more visual presence than HO, and the sound, smoke, and remote control options make it more realistic to me. Yes, you need more space to run it, but you don't need a 50 x 50 space to make a great layout.

Geno

[Anonymous]

Yes! You can run O guage in that space but understand the realities. If you wnat to run all the latest equipment you will need 072 curves as a minimum. This means 6 feet just to turn the train around but this is only the center of the track; add the rest of the track and clearance for the train and you are up to 7 feet. This is doable in a 10 foot space but dosen't leave much. I would suggest a folded dogbone with one end loop above the other. This would give you almost 24 feet of track length to raise the track. By pinching the track together between the two ends more room space could be reclaimed making the layout look smaller.

Look through the various catalogs and see what the minimum radius for the engins you would like to have in the future is. You might be able to get by with a smaller radious track..

HO is better but not by much. Most authorities recomend a minimum radious of 22 inches, lets call it 4 feet with clearences to make a turn. Some recomend 36 inch radious for all the available equipment to run properly. That brings us back to that 7 foot requirement when clearences are added. It is true that since the scale is smaller more detail can be placed is the same space. What do you want to do, run or detail. Confusing, isn't it.

[jefelectric]

Jerry, I modeled in HO when I was a young man.  Started an O gauge layout about 5-6 years ago when in my early 60s.  I am glade that I did.  I think you will be much happier in O gauge.

A comment that I will add is that you might want to rethink that "one 20 amp circuit."  That might sound like a lot but I would recomend that you go with at least two circuits.  One for train power and one for lighting.  If you put up track lighting, a good choice, you will need one circuit just for that.  I would actually recomend, if it is not to late, to go with three circuits.  One dedicated to power for the trains, one for the other outlets and one for lighting.  You can only use 16 amps continously on a 20 amp circuit and two Z-4000 or a new ZW with 4-180 bricks will use up about 8 amps. Add some transformers for lighting and accessories and you will be close to the capacity of a 20 amp circuit.  Remember the wattage ratings of newer transformers are output ratings and not the input consumption which is higher due to transformer loss.

Also if going over the garage, don't forget heating and AC.

I know I have rambled on here but so often the power needs are overlooked with O gauge layouts.

[Poppa_Zit]

Consider S gauge -- the best of BOTH worlds! (HO & O)

[lionelsoni]

Jefelectric is right that you can load a branch circuit continuously only at 80 percent (NEC 210.20A).  However, the definition of a continuous load is "A load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more."  It's a bit subjective; but I wouldn't expect that your layout would be running at full tilt for that long a time.

There's another 80-percent rule (210.23A1) that applies to "cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place".  This effectively limits each transformer (or whatever) to 12 amperes, since they are certain to have the familiar 15-ampere plugs with parallel blades.  The only way I can think that this could affect you is if you plug more than 12 amperes of stuff into one "power strip" gadget and then plug that into the outlet.

But, if the sum of less-than-12-ampere loads plugged into multiple 15-ampere outlets (210.21B3) on your 20-ampere circuit is less than 20 amperes, I think you're okay.

[emptyhook53]

Guys,

Sorry I did not get back sooner.  I did not notice the additional replys.  AawJr, I hate to sound dumb but what is a reverse dogbone?  I probably need to find some good track plans to look at.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Jeff, I've decided to go with O.  I can dress up the layout but still have "stuff to play with."  Bob and Jeff--I know just enough about electricity to get into trouble.  I can change a switch, etc.  The rest I leave to my friends who are electricians--or so they tell me!  Nothings burned down yet.  My lights are on a seperate circuit and there is only one recepticale on that 20 amp circuit.  There are others in the room but they are on a seperate 15 amp circuit.  Thanks for the help.  You will probably see me posting questions once the move happens and I can get started on the layout. 

[Andrew Falconer]

The reverse dogbone sounds like it would be a dogbone curved into a "U' shaped area.

The room you have available is big enough for O54 reverse curves on the ends of the U.

The big curve in the U can be O72.

You can run most O Scale with those minimum Diameter Curves of O54,

Andrew