PWC Sizing

[SFSC]

Bit of a newbie question I suppose...I'm trying to figure out what kind of sizing the PWC Series are...no doubt there's not a hard and fast answer!

Specifically, in looking at #31742, the PWC Super Chief set from the 2005 catalog vol I...is the sizing "traditional" or would it be approaching semi scale? They show it as requiring only O27 curves, yet the the stations sounds diner car, the two-pack passenger car set, and the non-powered F3 B unit show as 15 inches in length (even thought the whole 6 piece consist is listed to be  77 1/2" long).

Thanks in advance!

[YGBSM]

I have this set and it is probably more semi scale than traditional sized, but it does not look out of place operating alongside traditional sized trains and accessories.  The cars are the standard 15" extruded aluminum cars that have been around for 50 years.  They are bigger than the 027 passenger cars and will negotiate an 0-31 curve (don't know about 0-27- I think they will not work with 027 switches due to the body hitting the switch machine) although they look kind of weird doing so.  The B-unit is not 15 inches long.  If you have any other questions, just ask as I have all the pieces to this set and love it.

 

[lionelsoni]

If these F3s are the same size as postwar F3s, they are pretty good scale models in all three dimensions.  The 2500-type aluminum cars are 65 scale feet between pulling faces.  The F3As are 53 feet; and the F3Bs are 52 feet, for a total of 300 feet, or 75 inches, close to the 77.5 inches you cite.  The 2500-type cars will get around a Lionel O27 switch machine only if you cut the skirts off.

[brianel027]

I make reference to this article a lot from the March 1993 "Neil Young" issue of Classic Toy Trains... "Scale's The Thing." Maybe the article is on line somewhere here. Maybe it's time for Bob Keller and CTT to reprint this article.

Basically the article did a general breakdown of many popular trains based on their percentage of full-scale size. Very few train items of the postwar MPC era's are actually full prototypical scale, though some like the F-3, Trainamaster and GEEPs are pretty close. Others like the K-Line Alco FA, S-2 Swithcer and the basic Lionel 4-4-2 starter set steamer were graded as small, which if memory serves me right was about 80-85% of full scale.

I thought this was one of the most useful articles CTT ever printed and is valuable to anyone operating a smaller layout who is just starting in the hobby and wants to get an idea of what kinds of trains look good (size-wise) together.

Another side idea: Crown Model Trains some years ago tooled up 3 new cars that are now produced by Weaver: Steel Side Box Car, Outside Braced Box Car and Woodside Reefer. These cars are based on older prototype designs of cars that were actually smaller. So although the Weaver cars are full scale, they look right at home with traditionally sized trains. And their detail level, although good, doesn't make other traditional trains look bad by comparison.

[SFSC]

I have this set and it is probably more semi scale than traditional sized, but it does not look out of place operating alongside traditional sized trains and accessories.  If you have any other questions, just ask as I have all the pieces to this set and love it.

Thanks! I would be running it on O36 and O48 curves. Want something bigger than traditional, but don't have the curves for the long (i.e. 18" +) cars, so was thinking this would be good fit. Will be running in TMCC, but also conventional on same layout. Am also looking at current F7/F3 offerings, but no cars (i.e 15/16 inchers) available for those currently...

Out of curiosity, would standard sized freight cars be a reasonable scale fit with these PWC engines?

Thanks again!

[YGBSM]

IMHO the F3s look good with both the Standard O freight cars and the 6464 traditional sized stuff.  All of my rolling stock is traditional size (a lot of 6464 boxcars) and they don't look out of place behind the F3s or my PWC 773 Hudson.

[brianel027]

Also bear in mind that what is called the "Standard 0" line of cars by Lionel were tooled up in the mid-1970's. Though closer to scale than the tradition cars, their detail level is far less precise than the more prototypical scale rolling stock tooled up in the past few years. So for a "traditionally-sized" operator, the Lionel Standard 0 line of cars are not a bad fit at all. They are a little bigger, but then real trains often have some variety in sizes of cars too.

For your consideration too, the former Crown Model Trains cars now produced by Weaver (steel side box car, outside braced box car and woodside reefer) are scale proportioned yet based on actual smaller prototypes. I have a couple older CMT reefers and they look fine (on a size and detail level) with more tradtionally sized trains. Also the modern welded steel side box car made by K-Line (the 764 suffix series, with no roofwalk and half-length side ladders) looks good too and mimics a larger sized box car when alongside 6464 sized cars.