Visited with Mike Wolf at Reno Rails today, and he's going to be introducing the UP Heritage loco's in the Vol. 1 2007 Catelog. He had unpainted demo's with him, and they appear to be Premier Line.
Greg
Bill T.
Being that the info here came from Mike Wolf himself, I would not doubt the intention. But I wouldn't get too excited until you see the items on the actual MTH shipping schedule with a set date.
I'm not being anti-MTH here, but it is well known that MTH frequently cancels planned items. Nearly every catalog of the past few years has had a lengthy list of items cataloged and then cancelled. Mike Wolf has also defended this policy, saying he will not take planned items into production only to have them more likely to become blowouts. While his policy may upset some modelers who get excited over seeing certain items in a catalog, Mike runs a lean, clean train importing machine.
So I'm certain these Heritage items will appear in a future catalog. After the catalog announcement comes the dealer/wholesale preorders - which will be the BIG determining factor as to whether the items get made. Not enough preorders, and you will see these items on the following cancellation list.
So while there seems to be an consumer knee jerk reaction to the practice of preordering, with MTH someone had better preorder these items or regardless of how nice they are, they won't get made. For example, I thought the recent expansion of the Rugged Rails horn only locos was great... these are the kinds of items though that get purchased by starting modelers who typically DO NOT preorder. Just like with starter sets, people do not preorder starter sets and related starter set items. And yet nearly all of those announced Rugged Rails locos ended up on the cancelled list.
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
brianel027 wrote: For example, I thought the recent expansion of the Rugged Rails horn only locos was great... these are the kinds of items though that get purchased by starting modelers who typically DO NOT preorder. Just like with starter sets, people do not preorder starter sets and related starter set items. And yet nearly all of those announced Rugged Rails locos ended up on the cancelled list.
Brianl... Just a response to this. The largest impression I left with yesterday, upon meeting Mike Wolf, was of a man who knows his target audience. In fact, when three of us were asking him some questions, he said... "Toy trains are for 52 year old men". What does this tell you??? He understands that 10 year old boys are not buying trains, so why produce trains priced for them? I was at Reno Rails for an hour. In that our there were 35-40 people or so listening to Mike give a DCS demo. Not a one person was under 34 (and that was me). Most could have been my grandpa... and many of them were big spenders! Retirees with hobby money to spend on 1000.00 locos. So as much as I appreciate your above statement, I don't see it happening. If you can sell ample sets to your "Target" market at $ 350-1000.00... why even consider producing a low priced set? You'll only end up selling the same amount of units, but make less money. Mike knows who's spending the money, and that's who he's producing toy trains for. I don't blame him.
Greg T. wrote: brianel027 wrote: For example, I thought the recent expansion of the Rugged Rails horn only locos was great... these are the kinds of items though that get purchased by starting modelers who typically DO NOT preorder. Just like with starter sets, people do not preorder starter sets and related starter set items. And yet nearly all of those announced Rugged Rails locos ended up on the cancelled list. Brianl... Just a response to this. The largest impression I left with yesterday, upon meeting Mike Wolf, was of a man who knows his target audience. In fact, when three of us were asking him some questions, he said... "Toy trains are for 52 year old men". What does this tell you??? He understands that 10 year old boys are not buying trains, so why produce trains priced for them? I was at Reno Rails for an hour. In that our there were 35-40 people or so listening to Mike give a DCS demo. Not a one person was under 34 (and that was me). Most could have been my grandpa... and many of them were big spenders! Retirees with hobby money to spend on 1000.00 locos. So as much as I appreciate your above statement, I don't see it happening. If you can sell ample sets to your "Target" market at $ 350-1000.00... why even consider producing a low priced set? You'll only end up selling the same amount of units, but make less money. Mike knows who's spending the money, and that's who he's producing toy trains for. I don't blame him. Greg
I don't doubt that Mike Wolf understands who is audience is. It is a well known fact that despite efforts to the contrary, that this is a hobby for older men. A quick waltz around the aisles at YORK will show this clearly.
But at the same time, take a gander at MTH catalogs. More than any other company of recent years, MTH catalogs have lots of photos of young kids enjoying or holding train products. Truth be told, I think MIke would like for his products to appeal to younger buyers and MTH has made some efforts to that end result.
But most folks when first drawn into a local hobby shop are drawn in by the Lionel name and are more than likely looking for a Lionel set. Having been in the retail end of the hobby at one time, I've seen this for myself. Lionel is the first choice. K-Line sets were the second, as they were usually priced better than Lionel sets and came with more extras. I would never argue that MTH starter sets were not quality, But there were the most expensive and came with the fewest items and smallest amount of track.
MTH makes some fine quality products. But it has always been my gut feeling that a majority of loyal MTH buyers are disgruntled Lionel customers. From my own personal experiences, many MTH buyers seem to have the biggest grudge to carry against Lionel, for whatever reason. I say this not to start a flame war, but as an honest observation based on what I have seen and witnessed over the years.
In this current time in the hobby - at least from an importer viewpoint - it is probably wise that the companies know who is buying the products. Given their legal expenses, I doubt either Lionel or MTH has the extra capital to waste on making products that will not sell. The average current buyer may be 52 years old, but in another decade that is going to change big time, as it already is - which plays a part into why we see so many more used trains on the market (the new technology in current trains also plays a part in this too).
But the point I tried to make above is that the customer who purchases a Rugged Rails loco, or a Lionel starter loco or set, or any other beginner kind of product is the customer who is the LEAST likely to preorder. Therefore there is a built in liability and risk factor to making these kinds of products. In other words, if Mike (or anyone else) wants to lower the average age of the average customer, then the kinds of products a beginner might buy have to be made and available on store shelves. People like this don't buy what they cannot see.
Again, I'm not knocking Mike. But new customers are the least likely to be a YORK, or always on a train forum. They're not living and breathing trains like many of us older guys. They're not actively approaching companies with want lists and suggestions for what they want made. If they get the prompting, they may head into a hobby shop during the holiday buying season looking for a train set... maybe a first train set. If they come back after the holiday, they might be looking for a few more extras... track, cars, another loco. If the affordable products are not made, these customers will have nothing to buy. Most novices will not spend hundreds of dollars on a single locomotive the way an older established modelers might do.
If Mike wants a piece of this market, he has to take the risk and make those products, not just catalog them. Fortunately for the beginning buyer and lower end customers, Lionel usually follows through on producing these kinds of products, and on time too. I've noticed on most Lionel starter items, shipping dates are spot on accurate.
Plus we now have RMT, who in my book, unseats MTH from the throne seat of being the best thing to have happened for this hobby in the last 5 years. With the price and availability of RMT products, they may be purchased by the typical 52-year old, but they are affordable enough to entice someone much younger to also buy them.
These engines should be great..... did MTH and UP settle their legal issue, or is Mike tweaking their nose?
Tim
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