Hello,
this is my first post. I am in the planning stages of building a new layout. This is by no means a hi-rail layout. I will be using the old lionel track. I would like the construction to be simple as well as end up to be relatively quiet.
I was thinking homasote over 1*4 and laying the tack on cork road bed with adding rubber ties. I assume someone still sells these.
Comments appreciated. Hope this is the right place to post.
jh
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
Here's a link to a manufacturer of rubber ties for O or O27 track:3r-plastics.com
Thanks. Seems like the ties would help.
I have never used homosoate before and have read some conflicting things on this site. Does it need to be supported by plywood or can I put it on the 1*4s? How do I attach the track to it?
Thanks in advance.
dochott,
Homasote will sag with time. So you need a grid (1x4 or 1x2) under it (approx 12 inch centers) or you will need some plywood underlayment to support it.
Just about any self tapping/wood screw will work in the homasote.
Regards, Roy
dochoot,
I have read to not use homasote directly, but rather to always place it on top of plywood in a roadbed / sub-roadbed combination as Roy suggests. My benchwork is a web / girder framework with 15/32” plywood cut about 1.5” wider than the track with ½” MDF cut to the same width on top of the plywood. I believe that Homasote and MDF are the same thing - just depends on where you live? The plywood is fixed to the bench work with 1 x 3 cleats with a ½" piece across the top (looks like a “T”). I used a mixture of ¾” and 1” screws to fasten the MDF to the plywood.
I am using a majority of Atlas track with some Lionel tubular. I use the Atlas track screws to fasten the track to the MDF board. Drilled pilot holes first.
I have also heard that MDF is susceptible to warping / swelling due from moisture / humidity in the air. To be safe I put a coat of polyurethane on the MDF before I fastened it to the plywood.
- Luther
Roy, do you mean to support it with 1*4 braces every 12 inches would work? You guys have to dummy it down for me. I am looking for a flat table top benchwork.
As an aside, the avent of these forums since I was in the hobby is a great resource.
Jeff
luther_stanton wrote: dochoot, I have read to not use homasote directly, but rather to always place it on top of plywood in a roadbed / sub-roadbed combination as Roy suggests. My benchwork is a web / girder framework with 15/32” plywood cut about 1.5” wider than the track with ½” MDF cut to the same width on top of the plywood. I believe that Homasote and MDF are the same thing - just depends on where you live? The plywood is fixed to the bench work with 1 x 3 cleats with a ½" piece across the top (looks like a “T”). I used a mixture of ¾” and 1” screws to fasten the MDF to the plywood. I am using a majority of Atlas track with some Lionel tubular. I use the Atlas track screws to fasten the track to the MDF board. Drilled pilot holes first. I have also heard that MDF is susceptible to warping / swelling due from moisture / humidity in the air. To be safe I put a coat of polyurethane on the MDF before I fastened it to the plywood. - Luther
Homasote and MDF are basicly the same but Homasote is I believe a bit softer. As its made from diffrent material (old newspapers) Which means it absorbs sound better and excepts pins more easily.
I have had trouble finding a stockest here in the UK for Homasote. It is available but most places require you to order a pallet, 80 4'X8' boards!. I may get lucky and find a builders merchant with a part used pallet
A very similar product is Sundeala again made from newspaper which is marketed as a hobby board. I am planning on using this for my layout with 3/4" plywood as support. As the thickest normal Sundeala is 9mm. (a weather proof version is available in 12mm, but I guess this will be more expensive but may be better for damp/humid conditions)
If you use MDF make sure you wear a mask when cutting the stuff because the dust is nasty.
Regards
Nick
Jeff,
The 1 x 4 grid should be covered with plywood, 15/32" or 1/2", and then the homosote put on top of that. As was mentioned before depending on the size of the table you may need access holes. I have two for my 8' by 13' table. This type of construction may end up a bit noisy as we are sort of making a drum head with the plywood on the grid and then mounted to legs. There are ways around this but then again real trains make noise!
Jim
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
Thanks for all of the replies. I am trying not to repeat prior mistakes.
The store by me does carry homasote sheets. I have a pretty large space to work with and I am planning the layout with walkways through it so I will not need to climb around on it so much. That said, I will still take the advice and build it stronger. The plan is to use 1*4 for support anchored to the walls. I will cover with 1/2 inch plywood and add a layer of homasote. The only reason I am using the homasote layer is to deaden the sound which I assume is worth the trouble. I am using tubular track that I will mount on cork with added rubber ties.
While I am at it: My plan is to have a U shaped table with the three sides along walls and the open end facing out into the remainder of the basement. I will have an upper layer of trains cross the opening for a circle. In the middle I will have an island connected with the town in the center. Not sure if this is very clear.
Thanks again.
Sounds like a “solid” plan (yes, pun intended!). I think you will have a better layout with the plywood underlay.
Once thing I noticed is that the MDF is pretty dense -- perhaps that is why it is called Multi-DENSITY-Fiberboard. It's sound deadening qualities were less than I expected. As Nick12DMC pointed out it would seem that the homasote would be a little more sound absorbing than the MDF due to its construction . However, I am happy with my MDF / Plywood track bed.
And as for the noise, it is all good - after all it is a great sound to hear!
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
Buckeye, Very nice construction, almost looks like it was designed by an engineer.
As the Chief suggested, I'd seriously consider going with foam on top of a plywood underlayment. I started with homasote and switched to foam for several reasons including ease of use, price, availability, and paintability. Sound deadening appears to be about the same with either product. I can tell you from experience that it's a lot easier to cut and shape foam for irregularly shaped benchwork than it is for homasote. Also, because the foam is much lighter, your benchwork does not have to be as "sturdy". Either approach works -- it's really a question of what you are comfortable working with.
Poppyl
And when all the foam was carved, cut, and painted......we had this:
"Homasote and MDF are basicly the same but Homasote is I believe a bit softer."
Homasote and MDF are not the same. Homasote is made from recycled paper and MDF is a type of hardboard, which is made from wood fibres glued under heat.
The pictures of the foam construction are very interesting. I would like to learn more about working with foam. Does anyone have a good reference or is this all self taught? Looks like a great way to do the mountains as well.
I need a roadbed under my tubular track. Does anyone know of a company that sells precut and shaped homasote for this purpose? I thought I heard mention of it.
Thanks!
Homabed precuts and shapes the Homasote. They also put in some saw kerfs to allow it to be curved (like flex track). Finally, it's supposed to be milled to a very consistent thickness - some sheet Homasote has been reported to be inconsistent thickness. See http://www.homabed.com/ for details.
Fred W
By now I figure that you must be fairly confused about which way to go with your project. Kalmbach publishes a couple of books on layout construction. These might be a wise investment before you get much farther on this.
Just to clarify a couple of points. The primary purpose of foam or homasote on top of a plywood underlayment is for sound deadening. Running trains directly on plywood is pretty noisy but some people like the noise. Once the homasote or foam is down, you can lay your track on that base. Many of us, however, choose to go one step farther and glue down a roadbed on top of the base. This gives a more realistic appearance for ballasting and provides a platform for securely screwing down the track without going into the base. There are several varieties of roadbed including cork, rubber, and homabed. Cork is the traditional choice and is relatively inexpensive.
Back to the foam option. Unlike homasote, foam comes in different thicknesses. One half inch foam is fine if you are just laying it on top of the plywood without any features such as creeks, lakes, gullies, etc. You can go with with a greater thickness if you wish to create these landscape features on your tabletop. Go with a greater thickness for creating vertical landscape features -- mountains, hills, tunnels, elevated tracks, etc.
My research phase may extend a little longer then planned.
I don't think I will lay homasote boards over the plywood. If I were to use homasote at all, I would like to use it as a road bed and kill two birds with one stone.
I would like to try and use foam at least for the vertical features you mentioned. I will look for a book, hopefully tailored for O gauge.
Everyone has been helpful and patient on this site.
Since you are already a forum member, go to the CTT homepage. There should be a link there to the Kalmbach books that pertain to O gauge.
Don't be afraid to keep asking questions -- that's what this forum is all about. No question is too trivial to not be asked.
Foam cutter in clamp. I did this to keep my cut vertical. A phone cutter like this can be purchased from M&S Trains, Columbus, Ohio (614) 274-1178. We also used a cheese grater to shape some of the foam.
The foam cutter sold by Scenic Express is too fragile for 2" foam.
I woud suggest this book.
I sent away for some rubber RR ties as well as a sample of the homabed. If I were to use homabed on the foam, would I have to glue it down and if so, what do you use? When stacking the foam what kind of glue is used? I suppose the foam is also glued to the benchwork.
Are there specific kinds of foam I should look at? Looks like you are using 2 inch. Are the fumes toxic from cutting?
No end to the questions!
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