mpc sizing

[Anonymous]

Could someone please tell me if the rolling stock and passenger cars of the MPC era are basically the same size as modern stock or even post war?  Didn't know if passenger cars from that era would look strange with a modern engine. 

[3railguy]

With the exception of Standard O, most MPC was made from refurbished postwar tooling. MPC came out with new heavyweight coaches which were coined "baby madisons", a shorter version of the postwar madison cars. MPC streamline aluminum coaches are nearly identical to postwar. They are close to scale in cross section but shorter than scale. They look right with four axle scale diesels such as F3's but too short with six axle scale diesels such as E-8's. MPC also made 027 plastic streamliners that are nearly identical to postwar. These are shrunk all over and only look right with 027 engines. For the most part, MPC looks right with Lionel's current "traditional line" which is basically a takeoff of MPC.

[chuck]

Majority of the MPC era trains will be "traditional", aka semi-scale.  There are probably some pieces that are scale, but I don't know if the "Standard O" and "Traditional" terms had been coined yet to differentiate.

[3railguy]

Majority of the MPC era trains will be "traditional", aka semi-scale.  There are probably some pieces that are scale, but I don't know if the "Standard O" and "Traditional" terms had been coined yet to differentiate.

Lionel came out with Standard O cars in 1973 and that is what they were labeled. They were scale sized. Lionel bought the tooling from Pola. When MPC trains became Fundimensions around 1980, they came out with their "Collector Line" of higher quality trains (magnetraction, pullmore motors, etc) about the same time. They called their past cheaper MPC offerings "Traditional Line"

[fifedog]

Gator, take it from a guy who used to be a scale fidelist, some MPC offerings look downright at home on a modest pike. In comparison, true proto-48 cars from Atlas will dwarf everything around them (unless your minimum radius is O-72).  I frequently run a string of 70's era 40' Hi-cube boxcars and open auto-racks behind my MTH Premier GP30, and they look wonderful in the same lash-up. 

[brianel027]

Gator, fifedog makes a good point about the size of your layout. And not mentioned, but also the diameter of your largest curves. There have been more than enough layouts shown in the train mags with these scale proportioned trains running on 031 curves, which in my mind looks as toyish as "toy" trains running on 027 curves.

There was an excellent article in the now-famous Neil Young cover of Classic Toy Trains (March 1993) called "The Scale's The Thing." This article certainly warrants an updating and a reprinting. There was a nice chart which ran down relative scale proportion of popular trains under the following categories:

Small - less than 85% of true scale including for example the older 11-inch streadlined passenger cars and the short Madison cars.

Medium - 85-93% of true scale including for example the Lionel and K-Line/Kusan origin Alco FA or the K-Line/MARX origin Alco S-2.

Large - 93%-99% of true scale including items like the K-Line MP-15 switcher

True 0 - 100% scale which would for example include anything made by Weaver, with the obvious flaw of 3-rail track, over-sized flanges and couplers. Put a Weaver Box Car next to a 6464-type and you'll see the difference. Even the Williams and older Railking box cars are bigger than the 6464 types, just to confuse a bit more.

Of course, there was a time not so long ago, commonly referred to as the glory postwar years, where these proportion issues didn't matter so much.... folks built table top layouts, ran trains with their kids and had fun. Now today, I guess the hobby is better, save for all the little wars over prototypical scale, brand loyalty, compatibility, control systems, product licensing, detail levels, chuff rates, delivery times, product cancellations, product defects, repairs, too many catalogs, not enough catalogs and oh yeah, one more inky dinky item: lawsuits.

So Gator, if it looks good to you, go with it. I've built a 12-inch long U-36B which is hardly scale, but it sure does look darn fine on my small layout. And I'll take my own custom shrunk RS-3 over anyone elses. If I worried about all this other junk that overly concerns so many others, I wouldn't even be in the hobby. Like the old saying goes, size is relative and bigger is not always better. K-Line went bigger and wound up not better.

Sometimes, I think Frank53 is on to something when he says Postwar Rules. And one day, we'll look back on this current time as Scale Fools.