That 022 switch is giving me trouble again

[lionelsoni]

Check for oversteer on the pilot truck. Two-wheel trucks are usually pivoted too far forward. When the front of the locomotive swings out on a curve, the pilot wheels actually try to steer too sharply in the direction of the turn. They can then easily derail on any irregularity in the trackwork, like a frog or guard rail. You may be able to observe whether this is happening on your locomotive just by looking at the pilot wheels on a curve.

The correct location for the pivot is about halfway between the pilot wheels and the midpoint of the flanged drivers. I successfully modified a 2026 Adriatic by screwing a metal extension to the pilot truck tongue and pivoting it around a screw tapped into a motor cross-piece. What will work on your locomotive, and whether to do it, you will have to decide.

[lionelsoni]

Check for oversteer on the pilot truck. Two-wheel trucks are usually pivoted too far forward. When the front of the locomotive swings out on a curve, the pilot wheels actually try to steer too sharply in the direction of the turn. They can then easily derail on any irregularity in the trackwork, like a frog or guard rail. You may be able to observe whether this is happening on your locomotive just by looking at the pilot wheels on a curve.

The correct location for the pivot is about halfway between the pilot wheels and the midpoint of the flanged drivers. I successfully modified a 2026 Adriatic by screwing a metal extension to the pilot truck tongue and pivoting it around a screw tapped into a motor cross-piece. What will work on your locomotive, and whether to do it, you will have to decide.

[Anonymous]

Problem Update:

I unscrewed all of the track sections in the area of the turnouts today & made sure everything was absolutely straight. Then I screwed everything back down. I'm now 99.9% sure that the two turnouts are absolutely straight.

When I run my 2-8-0 consolidation through the two switches in a counter clockwise direction on the inner loop (which is the opposite direction it was running in the past), the two pilot wheels always derail going from the 022 left hand turnout that was giving me problems to the 022 right hand turnout that has never given me problems.

When I looked closely at the frog area on the troublesome turnout, I noticed that the plastic part that leads to the frog's point from the straight through route is actually HIGHER than the metal rail that is adjacent to it. I think this is the cause of my derailments. Inspection of the other turnout in this pair shows a similar situation at its frog. The other two turnouts on the outter loop seem to have no problem at all.

Should i take out the Dremel tool & grind down the plastic? Or is there a better way? Or does this have nothing to do with my derailments?

Tony

[Anonymous]

Problem Update:

I unscrewed all of the track sections in the area of the turnouts today & made sure everything was absolutely straight. Then I screwed everything back down. I'm now 99.9% sure that the two turnouts are absolutely straight.

When I run my 2-8-0 consolidation through the two switches in a counter clockwise direction on the inner loop (which is the opposite direction it was running in the past), the two pilot wheels always derail going from the 022 left hand turnout that was giving me problems to the 022 right hand turnout that has never given me problems.

When I looked closely at the frog area on the troublesome turnout, I noticed that the plastic part that leads to the frog's point from the straight through route is actually HIGHER than the metal rail that is adjacent to it. I think this is the cause of my derailments. Inspection of the other turnout in this pair shows a similar situation at its frog. The other two turnouts on the outter loop seem to have no problem at all.

Should i take out the Dremel tool & grind down the plastic? Or is there a better way? Or does this have nothing to do with my derailments?

Tony

[Anonymous]

Bob:

I found that there was excessive spacing between a couple of sections of track leading up to another switch on the layout, and these gaps started causing more derailments. I had originally placed one screw per section of trackk, each screw going in a hole near the joint with the next section. It seems that a few of these sections moved a little & opened the gap.

I removed the screws, tightened the gaps, replaced the screws & added another on the other side of the gap in an effort to keep them from opening again. So far, no derailments on these sections.

I will definitely give your suggestions for the switch a try, probably late tonight. I start my cabinet making class this evening and won't be home until after 9 pm.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Bob:

I found that there was excessive spacing between a couple of sections of track leading up to another switch on the layout, and these gaps started causing more derailments. I had originally placed one screw per section of trackk, each screw going in a hole near the joint with the next section. It seems that a few of these sections moved a little & opened the gap.

I removed the screws, tightened the gaps, replaced the screws & added another on the other side of the gap in an effort to keep them from opening again. So far, no derailments on these sections.

I will definitely give your suggestions for the switch a try, probably late tonight. I start my cabinet making class this evening and won't be home until after 9 pm.

Tony

[lionelsoni]

I would check first to see whether the lock hinge can be adjusted, as the service manual describes: "The swivel rail should lock securely in both positions. Failure to lock may cause train derailment and is due to improper operation of hingelock. The hinge lock should drop into place to lock the sliding mechanism at the end of both strokes. If it does not it may be adjusted by bending the front bar slightly. Make sure the hinge bar spring is unbroken and in proper place."
If this doesn't do the job, you can probably bend the offending point on the swivel rail out just a little with some stout long-nose pliers until it meets the stock rail firmly. Try to grab a half-inch or so, so the transition from stock rail to point is not too abrupt. This has worked for me in similar situations.

[lionelsoni]

I would check first to see whether the lock hinge can be adjusted, as the service manual describes: "The swivel rail should lock securely in both positions. Failure to lock may cause train derailment and is due to improper operation of hingelock. The hinge lock should drop into place to lock the sliding mechanism at the end of both strokes. If it does not it may be adjusted by bending the front bar slightly. Make sure the hinge bar spring is unbroken and in proper place."
If this doesn't do the job, you can probably bend the offending point on the swivel rail out just a little with some stout long-nose pliers until it meets the stock rail firmly. Try to grab a half-inch or so, so the transition from stock rail to point is not too abrupt. This has worked for me in similar situations.

[Anonymous]

Bob:

What I think is happening is that the points seem to be moving very slightly, just enough to for the wheel flange to hit the edge. I think the wheel then climbs on top of the point & the wheel derails.

When I opened the switch previously, the lock spring you mention was in place & pushing the lock hinge down. The switch is brand new, I just bought it in May or thereabouts. And the lock hinge "clicks" down when the switch is thrown, either manually or automatically.

As I said, the points are moving a very little bit, not more than 1/16". Any ideas?

Tony

[Anonymous]

Bob:

What I think is happening is that the points seem to be moving very slightly, just enough to for the wheel flange to hit the edge. I think the wheel then climbs on top of the point & the wheel derails.

When I opened the switch previously, the lock spring you mention was in place & pushing the lock hinge down. The switch is brand new, I just bought it in May or thereabouts. And the lock hinge "clicks" down when the switch is thrown, either manually or automatically.

As I said, the points are moving a very little bit, not more than 1/16". Any ideas?

Tony

[lionelsoni]

Is the "lock spring" (711-121) that holds the "lock hinge" (711-113, the wire loop) in place and pushing the lock hinge down? This is an otherwise straight spring wire that makes a couple of loops around the lock hinge close to one of its hinge points, the one on the completely straight side of the lock hinge. If it is absent or weak or has slipped off the lock hinge, the lock hinge might easily allow the points to move. You can see a picture of how it should be at http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/swt/stc022f.pdf .
If you need a spring, you may be able to get some very small piano wire from a hobby shop and make one.

[lionelsoni]

Is the "lock spring" (711-121) that holds the "lock hinge" (711-113, the wire loop) in place and pushing the lock hinge down? This is an otherwise straight spring wire that makes a couple of loops around the lock hinge close to one of its hinge points, the one on the completely straight side of the lock hinge. If it is absent or weak or has slipped off the lock hinge, the lock hinge might easily allow the points to move. You can see a picture of how it should be at http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/swt/stc022f.pdf .
If you need a spring, you may be able to get some very small piano wire from a hobby shop and make one.

[Anonymous]

Actually, I'm more inclined to take out the switch!

General Hot Shot isn't running bad, but my 2-8-0 Consolitation, which weighs a ton next to the General, has also been derailing on that switch. It seems that the points aren't staying in their proper position for the straight through route.

My wife has commented that we seem to be having a heck of a lot of trouble with the switches. Even my son is giving up when I'm not home & a derailment occurrs. And one does occur.

This is very frustrating. I'm looked at as being the expert on this at home, and I'm really just a beginner myself.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Actually, I'm more inclined to take out the switch!

General Hot Shot isn't running bad, but my 2-8-0 Consolitation, which weighs a ton next to the General, has also been derailing on that switch. It seems that the points aren't staying in their proper position for the straight through route.

My wife has commented that we seem to be having a heck of a lot of trouble with the switches. Even my son is giving up when I'm not home & a derailment occurrs. And one does occur.

This is very frustrating. I'm looked at as being the expert on this at home, and I'm really just a beginner myself.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Hey if that train keeps giving ya problems, youll need them to lend ya the gun AND more bullets...that should fix that train[;)]

[Anonymous]

Hey if that train keeps giving ya problems, youll need them to lend ya the gun AND more bullets...that should fix that train[;)]

[Anonymous]

Well, the Hot Shot General goes through the switch better, but still not perfectly. I had it running at what I'd consider a decent speed (not flat out since it will launch off a curve into space if I put it up that high) and I counted 77 laps before it derailed. Definitely better. GOtta figure out if I can mount the other half of that bullet...

I checked my track work & the two switches on the inner loop that form the cross over are still not perfectly straight, but they are a lot closer than they were.

Switches are still throwing fine automatically, though I haven't done anything about the switch that's hanging on the corners of those vertical tabs.

Getting there. I've learned a lot about the importance of making sure that your tangents are straight out of this!

Tony

[Anonymous]

Well, the Hot Shot General goes through the switch better, but still not perfectly. I had it running at what I'd consider a decent speed (not flat out since it will launch off a curve into space if I put it up that high) and I counted 77 laps before it derailed. Definitely better. GOtta figure out if I can mount the other half of that bullet...

I checked my track work & the two switches on the inner loop that form the cross over are still not perfectly straight, but they are a lot closer than they were.

Switches are still throwing fine automatically, though I haven't done anything about the switch that's hanging on the corners of those vertical tabs.

Getting there. I've learned a lot about the importance of making sure that your tangents are straight out of this!

Tony

[Anonymous]

I haven't done anything to that other switch yet, but, I hope to have a solution to the General's derailing problems.

We went to visit some relatives of mine in Jersey today. This particular uncle of mine collects guns. He casts his own bullets & loads his own ammunition. I brought the General with me, and described my problem to my uncle. He donated a .45 caliber bullet to the cause.

We flattened the bullet to about 3/16" thick, then cut it in half. We epoxied one half to the underside of the pilot wheel truck. It's after 11 pm now, so I'll try running it tomorrow & see if it rides over the switches better.

I guess I can nickname this particular locomotive "Hot Shot" now...

Tony

[Anonymous]

I haven't done anything to that other switch yet, but, I hope to have a solution to the General's derailing problems.

We went to visit some relatives of mine in Jersey today. This particular uncle of mine collects guns. He casts his own bullets & loads his own ammunition. I brought the General with me, and described my problem to my uncle. He donated a .45 caliber bullet to the cause.

We flattened the bullet to about 3/16" thick, then cut it in half. We epoxied one half to the underside of the pilot wheel truck. It's after 11 pm now, so I'll try running it tomorrow & see if it rides over the switches better.

I guess I can nickname this particular locomotive "Hot Shot" now...

Tony

[Anonymous]

Iceman:

I was just thinking of rounding the corners just enough that the wire slips off.

However, I'll try lubing it first.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Iceman:

I was just thinking of rounding the corners just enough that the wire slips off.

However, I'll try lubing it first.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Be careful. If I remember that tab is what keeps the switch "locked". I lubed up mine. At first is was kinda stiff, but after I worked the lube in it held up. Just an thought!

[Anonymous]

Be careful. If I remember that tab is what keeps the switch "locked". I lubed up mine. At first is was kinda stiff, but after I worked the lube in it held up. Just an thought!

[Anonymous]

Well, problem's solved.

I took up the switch from the layout, removed the cover, and inspected everything carefully. There was a signicant amount of grease on the rack & pinion, and a couple of very small pieces of some kind of gunk. Not sure what the gunk was -- it didn't look like carpet fibers or metal or black plastic. I removed the gunk & put everything back together & now the switch is throwing normally.

While I had the switch out, I made sure everything was straight when I put it back. Hopefully, this will help keep the General from derailing so much.

While I was at it, I noticed that another switch wasn't operating quite right. You know how there's a click at the end of the turn when you manually throw the switch? Well, when moving this one switch toward the diverging route, it doesn't click. I took off the cover on this one & I noticed that the wire bar that causes the click was getting caught up on the tips of these square piecesthat stick up inside of the part that holds the rack gear. You can press the wire down with your finger & get the click. Trains have been going through this turnout in both directions fine, but this odd behavior has me concerned.

Is there anything I can do to this one to make it behave better? Like filing down the corners on that metal piece a little?

Tony

[Anonymous]

Well, problem's solved.

I took up the switch from the layout, removed the cover, and inspected everything carefully. There was a signicant amount of grease on the rack & pinion, and a couple of very small pieces of some kind of gunk. Not sure what the gunk was -- it didn't look like carpet fibers or metal or black plastic. I removed the gunk & put everything back together & now the switch is throwing normally.

While I had the switch out, I made sure everything was straight when I put it back. Hopefully, this will help keep the General from derailing so much.

While I was at it, I noticed that another switch wasn't operating quite right. You know how there's a click at the end of the turn when you manually throw the switch? Well, when moving this one switch toward the diverging route, it doesn't click. I took off the cover on this one & I noticed that the wire bar that causes the click was getting caught up on the tips of these square piecesthat stick up inside of the part that holds the rack gear. You can press the wire down with your finger & get the click. Trains have been going through this turnout in both directions fine, but this odd behavior has me concerned.

Is there anything I can do to this one to make it behave better? Like filing down the corners on that metal piece a little?

Tony

[lionelsoni]

I once bought an old 1122 switch (the 027 version of the 1122) which had surprisingly little wear, probably because turned out not to switch reliably. I could move it by turning the lantern, but it was stiff. I found a tiny blob of metal embedded in the pinion that turns the lantern. After I dug it out, the switch worked perfectly. The rack-and-pinion of your 022 is very similar.

[lionelsoni]

I once bought an old 1122 switch (the 027 version of the 1122) which had surprisingly little wear, probably because turned out not to switch reliably. I could move it by turning the lantern, but it was stiff. I found a tiny blob of metal embedded in the pinion that turns the lantern. After I dug it out, the switch worked perfectly. The rack-and-pinion of your 022 is very similar.

[Anonymous]

Iceman:

Yeah, it does have such a lantern. I will check that area carefully.

Thanks!

Tony