Non Subscribers?

[Anonymous]

As one who worked in the print publishing industry for many years, and who now is involved primarily with on-line publishing on a daily basis, I would strongly agree with the points Erik presented.

With electronic media, the reader either receives, absorbs, and digests the information almost immediately, or it is quickly forgotten about and eventually overlooked entirely. The message either gets through in short order or it is often enough lost altogether. In part, it's the natural result of the information overload society we live in today, when almost nobody can even begin to keep up with all that's out there. That works fine if you're searching for specific information--having a problem with your CW-80 transformer, for example--but it doesn't work well at all if you're engaging in leisure-time reading simply to acquire information or as a source of entertainment and relaxation.

I much prefer a printed magazine that I can pick-up, browse through, and read at any convenient time. I generally keep the most recent issues in the bottom part of a nightstand beside my bed so I can relax and essentially read myself to sleep in the evenings. Works like a charm! Or, I may choose to read some of the material while I'm reclining on my Lazy-Boy or stretched-out on the sofa. Again, not exactly an ideal situation for most forms of electronic presentation. Then, of course, there's always the bathroom, where I assume a lot of serious reading gets done.

"FineScale Railroader" is/was one of those publications that a few years back began offering an on-line, downloadable, PDF version of their publication (free) to supplement their printed edition. The result is that both the printed publication and the on-line version suffered to such an extent that the once-fine and respected publication is now virtually without anything but a very small core audience, if it even still exists at all (it has been a long time since I visited their site, and I think the only print material they offer now is one or two theme-specific "annuals."

I stipped by my local B&N this afternoon and picked up the latest issue of "Garden Railways." It's here calling to me now, and I know I'll have some fun reading to look forward to later this evening and beyond when I retire to the bedroom to finish off the work week. And over the next week or so, every word in that magazine will be read--some several times over--and every ad will be looked at to see what's being offered, and how much it might cost. And it sure is awfully convenient to see an ad for Trainworld and then scan the ad for St. Aubin Station, or some other place, to compare prices and what's available. You can do that with an electronic medium, of course, but not without more work and lost time.

[rlplionel]

Thanks, Neil, for responding to my original post, wherever it went. [:D] This info will give myself, and hopefully other subscribers, something to think about when it's time to renew.

Robert
http://home.surewest.net/rlplionel/Robert.htm

[waltrapp]

QUOTE: Plus, at the end of a long day of looking at my computer montior all day, the last thing I want to do is go home and look at computer screen some more. I'd personally rather grab a magazine and lay on the couch. The old laptop on my chest just wouldn't be the same.

Yes, I would think 95% or more of subscribers would agree with that!!! I'm in systems and I don't even have a PC in my house - that's how much I want to avoid them after staring at them all day. I head to the library for forum access.

I've kept an extensive personal index for 20 years now of all articles and PICTURES that I might want to refer back to some day. I often refer back to 15 year old mags for things. Unless on-line issues would be perpetually available I sure wouldn't be interested.

I like paper.

- walt

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chuckn

"but right now we do not have safeguards and mechanisms in place, nor enough of a paying audience, to be able to sell entire digital versions of print magazines."


That's too bad. An electronic form of subscription with a price tag that passed along some of the savings from not having to print and snail mail it might increase circulation numbers.

I've researched this on more than one occassion for our company. It always comes down to three things:

1) The up-front cost to work with a company that offers a seamless final product for the consumer is rather large.

2) We feel that only a very small percentage of our readers would be interested. After all, you can't take your computer to your workshop/layout, unless you have a laptop. Even if you do, it's not the same.

3) Figures that we've uncovered from other publishers that have tried it typically show nice growth in year one, and an absolute nosedive in year two. Think about it; a printed magazine which arrives in your mail is front and center for that day, and then you most likely stumble upon it a few times after that (not to mention the times when you actually seek it out). An electronic version, on the other hand, would be on our site. You would most likely receive an e-mail notification alerting you that the new issue is available. You'd most likely check it out after receiving that initial notice. However, after that it sort of out of site, out of mind. You're not going to stumble upon it, you need to proactively seek it out. I think that's why a lot of publishers have experienced the drop off in numbers in year two. When it comes time to renew, I suspect a lot of readers think about how much they've actually used the electronic version. If it's not a significant amount, I presume they move back to the print version.

Plus, at the end of a long day of looking at my computer montior all day, the last thing I want to do is go home and look at computer screen some more. I'd personally rather grab a magazine and lay on the couch. The old laptop on my chest just wouldn't be the same.

With all that being said, I'm not ruling it out in the future. That's just where we are right now.

Thanks for your suggestions. We appreciate it.

Erik

[Anonymous]

"but right now we do not have safeguards and mechanisms in place, nor enough of a paying audience, to be able to sell entire digital versions of print magazines."


That's too bad. An electronic form of subscription with a price tag that passed along some of the savings from not having to print and snail mail it might increase circulation numbers.

[Anonymous]

Hi chuckn,

Yes, CTT is 100% electronic until it reached the printing press, but right now we do not have safeguards and mechanisms in place, nor enough of a paying audience, to be able to sell entire digital versions of print magazines.

Neil Besougloff
editor

[nblum]

Subscribed to CTT since before issue Numero Uno almost twenty years ago, routinely re-up for three years a shot (no worrying about green bananas yet, here ;). Look forward to the additional web content, but like many others, there's nothing like hard copy as yet. It may be many, many years or even decades before flexible, lightweight, portable high resolution screens become available at reasonable cost. CTT helped create the revolution and increased interest in O gauge three rail, and they're keeping it alive right now.

As for those who like to buy at the newstand or hobby shop, more power to you, but it's not discrimination to make web content only available to subscribers. It's just business. The Wall Street Journal does the same. I'm sure if CTT makes web content only subscriptions available, there will be very few takers, but it might be worth a try.

[Anonymous]

I actually keep back issues of CTT and FSM because of the advertisements. The articles and photo's are great, but a lot of times I need to find a vendor for a particular item and it's easier to use the ad index in back issues to find stuff like that.

Would it be possible or would Kalmbach be interested in producing a subscription only electronic version of the publication? You would use your account to access a restriced part of the server and read a pdf or html version of the publication. If I want/need hard copy I can still buy an issue OTC at a local newstand or hobby shop? This saves me shelf space as well as allowing for a potentially searchable version of the periodical? I would assume you have to produce the elctronic version to send to the printer anyway?

[Bergie]

In regards to both the newsstand buyer concern, as well as the concern that non-Trains magazine subscribers will no longer be able to access the Trains News Wire, I'm quoting an e-mail that our Publisher, Kevin Keefe, sent a reader last week. I think he sums it up very well:

"I respect your opinion on this matter as it relates to newsstand and hobby-shop purchasers of the magazine. I understand that some readers will find this to be an inconvenience.

However, we have provided this high-quality railroad news coverage at no charge for several years. We have made a substantial financial investment in the writing and editing of all this news, and we also plan to make major improvements in the months and years to come. We cannot simply give this away any longer. So we've decided to make our news coverage a benefit to subscribers, a bonus for making their commitment to receive the magazine.

I should emphasize that all the other features of Trainsmag.com will be available to all visitors. This also represents a substantial commitment of time and effort by our staff, and we are happy to provide it.

Thanks for hearing me out. --Kevin"

Kevin P. Keefe
Vice President-Editorial, Publisher
Kalmbach Publishing Co.

[Jumijo]

As a long time subscriber to Kalmbach periodicals, I'll vouch for the excellent customer service. Always pleasant and always helpful. And never ever have I had to call a second time to get an issue resolved. A lot of well known, "household name" magazine publishers could learn from Kalmbach's example.

Jim

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chuckn

Magazines don't make money on subscriptions or over the counter sales (they shouldn't loose money either and hopefully these revenues offset production and handling costs) They MAKE money on selling adds.

It's true in most of the magazine publishing industry that money is made on ads, but not in Kalmbach's case. Our magazines are financially driven by circulation because of the nature of our business. Other magazines can charge their advertisers high ad prices due to their large circulation numbers. Their advertisers are mostly large companies with large advertising budgets, like car manufacturers and such. In our case, we do not get advertisers like that. Our philosophy is to provide readers with information from advertisers who can help them find the products they need to enjoy their hobby. As I'm sure you can imagine, advertisers who meet that criteria do not have large advertising budgets these days.

Therefore, we depend on circulation, particularily our renewal subscribers, for the majority of our revenue stream. While we use online subscription agents such as mags4cheap.com to help us attract new customers to our magazine, we do not receive very much in return for those subscriptions. Of course, in the end it is your choice how you renew your subscription, but there are benefits to renewing through Kalmbach. As ben10ben mentioned earlier in this thread, online subscription agents are slow in forwarding subscription information to us, so you risk missing issues by renewing through them. We are proud of our excellent customer service here at Kalmbach, and by renewing directly through the company before your subscription expires, you can be sure you'll never miss an issue.

Elizabeth Runyon
Group Circulation Manager

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emmaandy


Here is an idea for us loyal readers yet non-subscribers. How about maybe having a code published in the magazine somewhere to unlock web features for that month? Regular subscribers could always have access still and the rest of us lowly retail readers could be happy as well.

How could you keep the code from being distributed freely all over the Internet after one person buys -- or just examines -- the magazine?

[Anonymous]

Magazines don't make money on subscriptions or over the counter sales (they shouldn't loose money either and hopefully these revenues offset production and handling costs) They MAKE money on selling adds. Advertising rates are based primarily on subscription figures with over the counter sales a secondary influence. I believe the theory is a subscriber is more likely to buy things they see in the magazine because they are more likely to read the entire magazine than an OTC buyer who buys on impulse or soley for a cover story that catches their eye.

[Anonymous]

So does the magazine lose money on retail or newstand sales? Why are you punishing people who do?

I get every magazine issue at my local hobby shop or even sometimes newstands. I do this at the hobby shop because I feel like if I walk in there I should at least buy something. There are enough people being babysat for free in there as it is. This gives me a chance a month to go in a get something if I don't see the other item I am looking for.

Please don't make me subscribe to Trains to read the Newswire. I do like that feature. Of Kalmbach magazines I buy Trains occasionally, MR often, and every CTT. I buy your magazines and have subcribed in the past. I do like to support my local store in my way too.

The way I see it if no one was buying at retail because there was no incentive to buy at a retail those stands would stop carrying the magazine especially a non-LHS. If those magazines are not out in the open and selling on the stands it may be harder to get new readers.

Here is an idea for us loyal readers yet non-subscribers. How about maybe having a code published in the magazine somewhere to unlock web features for that month? Regular subscribers could always have access still and the rest of us lowly retail readers could be happy as well.

[Anonymous]

I just subscribed for the second time and although I know there are cheaper rates out there I went directly through Kalmbach. I agree it's a very good magazine and I enjoy the media put out by this company and am happy to support them.

[dwiemer]

[2c] Just my 2c, but I think that CTT is a quality product. I purchase from Kalmbach and happily do so. What would save me maybe $5-10, is not a thought if it could mean that the magazine would cease to exist. We need to support this magazine as they have a good product and offer good service. I also think we need to support our local hobby shops if they are reasonable and also offer good service. If you don't support them, they will be gone.
Dennis

[Anonymous]

Robert,

CTT offers a lower price to first-time subscribers to attract their business, which is no different from other magazines. Depending on the offer, we often lose money but with a goal of gaining a profitable customer once he or she renews in subsequent years.

The magazine sellers on eBay and other places take these introductory-offer cards and sell them to the public for a tiny add-on fee, whether the buyer is a new subscriber or not.

Since we honor all of our subscription-offer cards, it sometimes turns out that a CTT subscriber or a recently expired subscriber can get a new subscription at cheap price through one of these magazine dealers.

While that's a bargain for the individual subscriber, if all of CTT's subscribers did the same thing, we'd lose so much revenue that we'd go out of business.

Sincerely,
Neil Besougloff
editor

[palallin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Poppa_Zit

Want to write that CSX has a secret mainline that runs underground from St. Louis to San Francisco? No problem at Wikipedia.

So, somebody has unearthed the St. Louis-San Francisco (Frisco) Underground Railway at last, have they? I just knew that the BNSF wasn't good enough to completely swallow up my favorite road!

Coonskins forever!

[Poppa_Zit]

Allan -- a perfect example: our train club.

Of a total of 57 members, 39 newsletters have to go out by mail each month because members have no email address -- not even on free sites like hotmail.com or yahoo.com. I think from that statistic we can safely assume they also lack Internet access.

Plus, because of the relative low cost of the Internet, anyone can set up a site and the information one can glean is hardly trustworthy in too many cases. Take the "cyber-encyclopedia" at Wikipedia.com -- anyone... ANYONE... can add information to any of the subjects. Want to write that CSX has a secret mainline that runs underground from St. Louis to San Francisco? No problem at Wikipedia.

[Anonymous]

You're definitely not alone, Poppa! The majority of hobbyists I know in the "real world" spend little or no hobby-related time on the Internet. They may be fully computer literate (isn't just about everyone these days?), may use a computer at work for eight hours a bay, and they may even conduct some personal business via a computer at home, but the majority of them have little or no interest in discussing their hobby on-line, buying their trains on-line, and other such hobby-related cyber-activities.

Despite the wealth of electronic media out there in all its various forms, I'm not terribly worried about books and magazines disappearing from the scene anytime soon--certainly not in my lifetime. The Internet already suffers from information overload, and it's bound to get a whole lot worse before it gets any better. Specialized publications--books and magazines, in particular--have a lot of advantages in that they are often focused on specific topics so information/entertainment sought can be had in a convenient, accessible package. There's a lot to be said for that, even today.

But it is wise for print material publishers to exploit the advantages of the newer media wherever possible, and in whatever way works best for them.

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fifedog

Print media is being killed off quickly by the internet. Enjoy these free exchanges while you can, guys and dolls. Kalmbach has to pay folks to provide this service for us, and I foresee the day when there will be a monthly fee to view this material...

While the Internet has made its mark, it will never totally replace print media. Still, only 40 percent of the populace uses the Internet on a regular basis. Another 20 percent have access, but only do so -- hesitantly -- when no other alternative exists.

Print media has had to find ways to re-invent itself, though, and those publishers that do not will probably fail. One way to survive is to charge a fair price for web-based editorial.

The Internet boom of the mid-1990s quickly fizzled as people came to realize it was not the "gold mine" it was purported to be. Companies quickly set up sites expecting to make windfall profits from selling advertising and product, which proved to be mostly a bust. Yes, some (eBay, Google, yadda yadda) have been very successful, but they are the very few exceptions (survivors) of the millions who tried.

I am a perfect example of why the Internet won't replace print -- I subscribe to CT, CTT, MR and TRAINS and have made purchases from many businesses who advertise therein. In all these years of spending an average of 4-6 or more hours a day on the net, though, I have NEVER even clicked on an ad on the web, let alone made a purchase from one.

Maybe I'm alone on this aspect, but one of the reasons print media will always exist is it's difficult to balance a laptop on your knees in the bathroom. [:D]

[palallin]

I have subscribed to CTT since its third issue. (I bought the first one at a LHS, and I did go back early and get #2.) I will continue to do so, not because of any online content but because my subscription is the best way to ensure that I get all the issues. I let my MR subscription lapse long ago and buy them only when one really interests me (maybe one/year). The online content offered for MR is hardly an inducement to subscribe, though the annoncement seems to indicate the MR's will be the most elaborate of all the mags' online-only features. There's just not enough O in MR to make it worthwhile. I do get Classic Trains from time to time, and I also visit their forum, but they have no online extras.

[fifedog]

Print media is being killed off quickly by the internet. Enjoy these free exchanges while you can, guys and dolls. Kalmbach has to pay folks to provide this service for us, and I foresee the day when there will be a monthly fee to view this material...

[traindaddy1]

I recall that some person once said that if you have to ask, then maybe you are in the wrong hobby. That being said, some 'older' guys just cannot afford to buy ANY hobby publications and rely on the public library, throw-aways and the generosity of others who allow the use of their computers to participate in forums like these. Here's to the continued success of the Kalmbach enterprise.

[Anonymous]

I subscribed last night after thinking about the convenience. I like to keep all the issues, so if the Post Office trashes one I will be making a phone call. Mabey I will call them sometime this week and tell them to stop folding magazines, stuffing them with bills and putting a rubber band around it!

[Jumijo]

I just renewed my CTT subscription for another year. Getting a subscription seems like a no-brainer to me. Kalmbach discounts the cost substantially, the customer service is top notch, and the magazine comes to me a week or more before it's available at the newstand. Now it's my golden key to an elite web-based toy train club. How can you hate it?!

Jim

[timbowilts2]

I feel, living 6000 miles from Milwaukee, that this is a retrograde step. It will not coerce me into subscribing to Trains as past experience of Kalmbach subscriptions to this side of the Pond has been horrendous.
I currently receive Trains and Model Railroader thru my village store/newsstand as I want to keep him in business therefore I regularily contribute to Kaalmbach's profits. Why can I not view Newswire?

This is discriminatory.

Regards to all fellow Trains enthusiasts who believe in supporting local businesses wherever they may be in the world

[ChiefEagles]

I subscribe. Think I'm two or three years ahead on my subscription. Then I don't worry about when it comes out and going to the train store to buy it. Makes great reading on the long flights on airplanes [which I have been doing a lot of].

[prewardude]

I have subscribed to CTT since 1997 and it remains my all-time favorite magazine (despite the current de-emphasis on prewar coverage). I think I'm addicted to this mag. Will be looking forward to the new Website. [:)]

Regards,
Clint