A Train Master by any other name...

[lionelsoni]

...would be less confusing. It occurs to me that our hobby is full of ambiguous terms which have been used for several different things, so that it is not all that easy sometimes to know what one is talking about. Some examples:

Fairbanks-Morse named their H2466 locomotive the "Train Master". Lionel made a model of it. Lionel named their transformer line "Trainmaster". Lionel then came out with TMCC, with the "TM" standing for, what else?

O27 can mean the diameter of the track. Or the rail profile, whether straight or curved in some other diameter.

There are at least three "O" scale-gauge combinations in American and two more used in Europe.

Some folks (You know who you are) like to use "PW" both for "prewar" and for "postwar". Sometimes you can tell from the context which they mean.

Lionel made three ZW transformers. The last one is very different from the others.

Lionel loved the model number "400", starting with a 2 7/8-inch-gauge gon in 1901. It was a set number in 1915, a standard-gauge locomotive in 1931, and finally an RDC in 1956.

"Pull-Mor" was originally American Flyer's traction-tire scheme. Now it is what Lionel calls its open-frame 3-pole universal motors.

Anyone have any more?

[johnandjulie13]

Still being a newbie to the hobby, one of the many things that confuses me are the designations of some freight cars: PS1, PS2, PS3, etc. What does the PS stand for? Then there is MTH with their Proto Sound version 1 (PS1) and version 2 (PS2). Also, there was a lot of buzz on the boards when Lionel delivered their PS4. What is a PS4? Turns out it is a steam engine. [:p]

Regards,

John O

[Anonymous]

How about "Hi Rail"? means different things to different people.
Then we have "scale","semi scale","traditional size"," Scaleking" that run on O31 but O27 is no longer mentioned. Often nothing is marked on the box so you can only guess the size.

Then there is Lionel postwar,Williams reproductions of Lionel postwar,MTH reproductions of Lionel postwar,Weaver which is all scale. Hard to explain to a new person Lionel is not the only company that makes trains.

Then What about all the track? Lionel tubular O and O27,fasttrack,super O,Atlas NS and solid steel ,K-Line tubular,shadow rail ,K-Line snap track, MTH real track ,Mth scale track,Williams repo of Lionel track old super o track. AF and O 2 Rail. Companies that measure the inside diameter and companies that mention the outside diameter and flex track.

Then there are all the gauges from Z to OO.

Then there are all the various command and control system,PS1,Ps2 QSI2,Rail sounds1,signal sounds,Railsounds 2,3,4,5,true sounds,true blast whistle,DCS,DCC,OTT conventional with mechanical E units,conventional with electronic reverse units. Transformers with true sine waves,transformers with chopped sine waves,conventional acessories,TMCC acessories. I could go on and on. I dont see how how people new to the hobby can keep up. .Some of the simplist things are compicated and hard to explain especially to someone unfamiliar or only with a casual interest. I think I have a headache.

Dale Hz

[dbaker48]

All the above are true understatements! Do you think CTT could put a sticky thread that consisted of terms, acronyms, and definitions? Sure would be beneficial.

[Anonymous]

There is another post on here about opening train store. Can you imagine trying to explain all this stuff to a new potential customer? Maybe it is a housewife buying a train for a younger child.

Then there are all the lemons you or worse someone else previously sold. Example: a customer who purchased a Proto1 starter set a year ago ran it around the tree,packed it away for the year then unpacked it the following year and and now it just sits there going "clank.clank,clank". Now try and explain the whole battery thing. and answer all the questions like "Why does it need a battery in the first place?"

Now try stocking even a rudimentary amount of parts to service your stuff. Try explaining why no parts are available for that $189 Lionel accessory issued 2 years ago. Some questions have no answers. I would feel like a used car salesman after a while,no thanks.

Dale hz

[3railguy]

Tin plate: Once it meant a plating process with steel as in the prewar years when wheels and rail were made of steel plated with tin.

Today tin plate is often associated with 3 rail toy trains all together whether they be plastic or diecast.

Semi-scale: Once meant 1/48 proportioned engines such as the 763E semi scale hudson with less detail and tinplate trucks for half the price (semi) of the fully detailed 700E "full scale hudson".

Today, semi scale means squished trains such as Railking or Lionemaster with as much detail as their full 1/48 scaled models.

DCS: Once meant a style of programable logic controllers developed by Allen Bradley in the 1980's for digital control of processing plants such as for food, beer, paper, etc.

Today, DCS is an MTH toy train operating system.

Wolf: Once meant a vicious animal that raided chicken coupes.

Today "Wolf" is credited by some to have "saved the O gauge hobby" whatever that is supposed to mean.

Flame War: A method once used by the Japaneese during world war II to ward off American ground troops.

Today flame war is a forum dispute between Lionel and MTH fans.

[Anonymous]

"Do you think CTT could put a sticky thread that consisted of terms, acronyms, and definitions?"
---------------------

I kind of doubt it would be all that useful because then you would just have folks coming out of the woodwork to debate/change/dispell/modify just about every definition in the list.

There is no more confused (and confusing) scale in all of model railroading than today's O gauge, which I imagine accounts for some folks going to an alternative scale if they stay in the hobby at all.

I used to think that Large Scale was a fairly confusing scale to understand, but hobbyists themselves have mucked-up O gauge to such an extent in recent years--reinventing long-accepted definitions--that O gauge is now the leader of the pack, by far.

[1688torpedo]

There is also the term "Standard O" That Lionel uses to designate larger & more detailed Freight Cars. This term originated in 1973 after Lionel Bought some Pola Tooling & Started this series with them. The term "Baby Hudson" Is used to describe the smaller 2046,646,2055,& 2065 Hudsons of the postwar era.Take Care all

[jefelectric]

QUOTE: Still being a newbie to the hobby, one of the many things that confuses me are the designations of some freight cars: PS1, PS2, PS3, etc. What does the PS stand for? Then there is MTH with their Proto Sound version 1 (PS1) and version 2 (PS2). Also, there was a lot of buzz on the boards when Lionel delivered their PS4. What is a PS4? Turns out it is a steam engine.

John O, The PS in this example stands for the manufacturer of the prototype cars (Pullman-Standard). For example a PS-1 is a box car, a PS-2 is a covered hopper, a PS-3 is a hopper, a PS-4 is a flat car & a PS-5 is a gondola. Hope this helps.

[csxt30]

Now days a Trainmaster on the real RRs is a supervisor of train crews & operations in his territory . A Roadmaster used to be a Buick, & today it's a supervisor ot track on th RR.
Thanks,

[dougdagrump]

Dale hz,
I would venture to say that almost all of these questions, in one form or another, are asked on a daily basis at the various public train displays. And when you are talking to someone with virtually no exposure to either model or toy trains it can be a CHALLENGE.

[lionelsoni]

For those who asked for it, here it is:

http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/003/702ssvvn.asp
http://www.trains.com/glossary/glossary_search_user.asp

[spankybird]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dbaker48

All the above are true understatements! Do you think CTT could put a sticky thread that consisted of terms, acronyms, and definitions? Sure would be beneficial.

they kinda did

http://www.trains.com/glossary/glossary_search_user.asp

[;)]

sorry Bob, didn't see that you alread posted it. [8D]

[bogaziddy]

Hey John (CSXT30)

For a short period of time out here in California, the U.P. had another name for Road Foremen of Engines or Trainmasters ( I can't remember which ). They called them the "Manager of Field Operations". The designation was soon dropped however when all of their underlings opted for the more descriptive term of "MOFO" when referring to their supervisors. My how quickly things can change on the railroad when they have to.

Bog

[Anonymous]

Well, at least it's better here than in "G" Gauge. They have a variety of scales for one gauge. We never even had any "scale" concerns until the scale models came out in the 90's.

[Anonymous]

Glossary Terms are great!
Helps Non Railroader understand the meaning of words.
Have one missing,
how about Gum Shoe ?

HGK

[dbaker48]

Bob (lionelsoni), & Tom (Spankybird) GREAT LINKS THEY SHOULD BE MADE STICKY !!

SURE WOULD HELP A LOT OF PEOPLE, SURE HELPS ME.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GUYS STAY ON TOP OF ALL THIS YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS UNBELIEVABLE..

THANKS !

By the way how did lionelsoni come about?

1

[pbjwilson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bogaziddy

Hey John (CSXT30)

For a short period of time out here in California, the U.P. had another name for Road Foremen of Engines or Trainmasters ( I can't remember which ). They called them the "Manager of Field Operations". The designation was soon dropped however when all of their underlings opted for the more descriptive term of "MOFO" when referring to their supervisors. My how quickly things can change on the railroad when they have to.

Bog

Bog, I like it. LOL

[lionelsoni]

Don, in college, I lived with several other members of the music fraternity. We gave each other Italian-sounding versions of our names--like Roberto Nelsoni--for no good reason. Mine was the only one that stuck. When I was picking an AOL name years later, I tried lionelson, to combine "Lionel" and "Nelson"; but it was already taken. So I added the "i" from "Nelsoni".

Here's another ambiguous term: "E-unit" Does it mean a reversing mechanism, or an 1800-horsepower EMD locomotive?

[Jumijo]

I always wondered why toy train reversing mechanisms were referred to as E-units. Anyone know why?

Jim

[lionelsoni]

I believe that it comes from Lionel's prewar practice of appending an "E" to a locomotive's model number to indicate that it had electric, rather than manual, reversing. The letter then got associated with the unit that did the electric reversing. So it is not quite proper to use the term for other brands of trains. American Flyer in particular avoided using it; and I try to say "reversing unit" instead when talking to Flyer enthusiasts, to avoid offense.

[ole1]

CTT had an article titled "Tricky toy train terms" in the December 1998 issue which may be of some help.

Ole

[lionelsoni]

Another ambiguous term: standard gauge. Is it 2 1/8 or 56 1/2 inches?

[Deputy]

There is another post on here about opening train store. Can you imagine trying to explain all this stuff to a new potential customer? Maybe it is a housewife buying a train for a younger child.

Then there are all the lemons you or worse someone else previously sold. Example: a customer who purchased a Proto1 starter set a year ago ran it around the tree,packed it away for the year then unpacked it the following year and and now it just sits there going "clank.clank,clank". Now try and explain the whole battery thing. and answer all the questions like "Why does it need a battery in the first place?"

Now try stocking even a rudimentary amount of parts to service your stuff. Try explaining why no parts are available for that $189 Lionel accessory issued 2 years ago. Some questions have no answers. I would feel like a used car salesman after a while,no thanks.

Dale hz

Speaking of lemons, how about some false advertising...how about the BRAND NEW 2006 train set listed in the Lionel catalog as being a "Premium Train Set" that has "RailSounds sound system with CrewTalk communication TowerCom announcements and DynaChuff synchronized chuffing", only the "CrewTalk" is a remnant from years past that sounds like "gobble gobble gobble" when the crew says something. All this for only $530 samolies. Wonder how many of those old "CrewTalk" chips Lionel has laying around???

Dep

 

[Anonymous]

jaabat

Jim,

I have heard that because the E-unit works off a voltage interruption it was named after the symbol used to represent voltage (at least when I was a kid) "E" as in E=IR. I never have believed this, and still don't, especially since Bob Nelson (lionelsoni) has posted above that American Flyer never used the term. This just might be significant as Flyer invented the device -- or so I am told.

If any one has any Flyer history or old documents, they might be a place to look.

Revision: edited, but nothing deleted:

Based on Bob Nelson's post BELOW, it is clear that Ives had the E-unit before either Flyer or Lionel. This fact makes an internet search a bit more fruitful. Wikipedia claims that the "E" stood for "'electronic" although the device was actually mechanical." It certainly wasn't electronic, but I think the term "electro-mechanical" is more descriptive. But either way, they each begin with an "E". So, if anyone has any Ives history or old documents, they might be where to look. Thanks for the correction and update, Bob.

[lionelsoni]

My understanding is that B.A. Smith and H.P. Sparks (great name!) invented the 3-position e-unit in 1924 and licensed it to Ives.  Lionel countered with the 2-position e-unit in 1926.  Then Lionel and American Flyer together acquired Ives and the superior Ives e-unit in 1928.

The E in E=IR stands for "electromotive force"; so, in a sense, it is the same abbreviation as for "electric reversing".

[Anonymous]

I have an short E5 switcher that switches directions on one particular turnout.  In short, it turns out that the turnout had a short that in turn switched the switchers reversing switch.  Switching out turnouts with a new turnout turned out to be the fix.  So, if you have a short switcher that doesn't work on shorted turnouts, switch out the shorted switch with a new turnout rather than switching to a new switcher and everything will turn out fine shortly.

Bruce Webster

[pbjwilson]

I have an short E5 switcher that switches directions on one particular turnout.  In short, it turns out that the turnout had a short that in turn switched the switchers reversing switch.  Switching out turnouts with a new turnout turned out to be the fix.  So, if you have a short switcher that doesn't work on shorted turnouts, switch out the shorted switch with a new turnout rather than switching to a new switcher and everything will turn out fine shortly.

Bruce Webster

Now I understand. LOL

[Anonymous]

I have an short E5 switcher that switches directions on one particular turnout.  In short, it turns out that the turnout had a short that in turn switched the switchers reversing switch.  Switching out turnouts with a new turnout turned out to be the fix.  So, if you have a short switcher that doesn't work on shorted turnouts, switch out the shorted switch with a new turnout rather than switching to a new switcher and everything will turn out fine shortly.

Bruce Webster

Now I understand. LOL

I'm glad you do!  Mind explaining it to me?  hehehe

[RR Redneck]

QUOTE: Still being a newbie to the hobby, one of the many things that confuses me are the designations of some freight cars: PS1, PS2, PS3, etc. What does the PS stand for? Then there is MTH with their Proto Sound version 1 (PS1) and version 2 (PS2). Also, there was a lot of buzz on the boards when Lionel delivered their PS4. What is a PS4? Turns out it is a steam engine.

John O, The PS in this example stands for the manufacturer of the prototype cars (Pullman-Standard). For example a PS-1 is a box car, a PS-2 is a covered hopper, a PS-3 is a hopper, a PS-4 is a flat car & a PS-5 is a gondola. Hope this helps.

Just like jefelectric here says, the PS was a like a modeld designation for the Pullman company. It stands for Pullman Standard.