I figured it out!

[Anonymous]

After many posts in answer to the infamous, "Has Lionel quality degraded?" question where I groused about a Shay engine I purchased for over $1100.00 that did'nt run out of the box, stalled on FasTrack turnouts, etc., etc., I took the bull by the horns to fix it. Well, the engine runs as it should have from the begining now. Faults discovered and fixed are: 1.TMCC board unplugged and rattling loose in the cab(this at least got it responding to TMCC and making sounds. 2. Engine stalled at all turnouts unless running almost wide open.
I called Lionel Tech support and the Technician after many questions thought it might be a "defective pick up roller". Pretty good actually. It got me looking closer at just where the engine was stalling, which was the frog of course. Then I started thinking that as soon as the front roller contacted the plastic frog, the engine would stall. AHA! must be a defective rear pickup roller! But all three??? (rear engine and two on the tender) I think not. So, I tore the engine apart again, this time armed with my trusty FLUKE meter that beeps with continuity. All of the rollers were fine!! So I put the engine back together again. Now the TMCC wont work and the engine charges ahead full bore as soon as track power is applied. Still stalling on the switch!! A very close examination of the center rail pickup rollers reveals that they are not even making contact with the center rail, they are at their down limit by about an eighth of an inch. What to do? I grabbed ahold of them and bent them down about 3/16 of an inch and lo and behold the engine raced through the turnouts like a NASCAR!
Long story short, it took 6 more disassembly/ re-assemblys to figure out that the connection for the antennas for the TMCC was poor and needed to be re-done. Seems the grab rails are insulated from the body and are the recieving antennas for the TMCC signal. I figured this out by touching them while I was programming the engine. Without touching it, the engine would not program or take commands, but if I touched it, the engine would behave normally and program and run. As long as I had my finger on the grab rails along the boiler. The owner's manual said the grab irons must not touch any metal part of the boiler or the TMCC would not work. Well, at least it was a clue. Who would have thought that a connection so critical to TMCC operation would have been put together with a small yellow wirenut??. I took it apart and remade the connection and now it is working correctly.
I had originally thought that I might offer an apology for badmouthing Lionel quality control, but all of the bugs in this engine were a direct result of poor post manufacturing inspection and testing.
Dont take anything for granted when you get a new whatever from Lionel.
Be sure to buy from a place that will take returns of defects for refund or exchange and not issue store credit.

Lesson learned!

blabree11

[Buckeye Riveter]

A very good explanation of your problems. [:D] Thanks for sharing.

[Anonymous]

A great post. Often problems take hours to find and only minutes to correct. The secret is in the troubleshooting. Whenever I run into wirenut connections,I remove it and solder the wires together. If they had put the engine on a test track they would have discovered there were problems immediately but instead they just send it to the customer. As long as people buythey will keep doing it. I have had to fix about half of my Lionel accessories right out of the box,investigating the problems as you did.

Dale Hz

[trigtrax]

Truth is the more complicated things are made, the more likely something will go wrong. Then the folks claim lack of quality control. It isn't that, it's a violation of the Engineering law of K.I.S.S.
My own view has always been.. The little choo-choo goes around the oval.. How complicated is that? [:o)]

[Anonymous]

Maybe that well save me and some to the other members some sorrow later.

[pbjwilson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trigtrax

Truth is the more complicated things are made, the more likely something will go wrong. Then the folks claim lack of quality control. It isn't that, it's a violation of the Engineering law of K.I.S.S.
My own view has always been.. The little choo-choo goes around the oval.. How complicated is that? [:o)]

Well said.

I'm sure Lionel had quality control issues in their Postwar trains as well. But in the old days you'd take your train back to the bike shop or Firestone dealer and an old guy would tinker with it a while and get it to work. Now days theres nowhere to take your train to. Most of us buy over the internet or mailorder. If we do have a hobby shop to go to you are lucky to find someone that can make a repair, and if they do it's at $60 an hour. Again well said trigtrax.