BREAKING NEWS!!! Lionel moving production back to USA

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Allan Miller

Well, he apparently did make up a fairy tale, so now some can praise him for being so clever and others can scorn him for making patsies out of people by creating a fraud. But at least all will now know better than to trust his pronouncements in the future, and to take what's displayed as "news" on that MTJ forum with a large grain of salt, so all's well that ends well.

Mr. Miller:
I thought it was rather humorous. Don't you have a sense of humor?[:0]

[Anonymous]

shipping is still a bargain when bringing it over by boat.

Absolutley correct, my contracts with three major stem ship lines is less per container this year than last year. Reason being, capacity will exceed volume both this year and next. There are 22 super container ships coming on line that have 8,000 to 10,000 twenty foot equivilents capacity, replacing ships that were 6,000 to 8,000 twenty foot equivilents. Also peak season surcharges were negotiated lower or with some steam ship lines eliminated, its a buyers market for container space.

[mackb4]

I have some ocean front property for sale here in Kentucky.Anyone interested ?Oh the one problem with it.Everytime I drill for water,I hit oil.Dang it ![:o)] No I do hope that is true.You know with all the companies going overseas,there's plenty of cheap commecial sites here in the U.S. . Kinda odd how things work.Overseas firms build plants here in the U.S. and say they are making record profits by doing so.U.S. companies build plants overseas and say thats the only way they make a profit.Wow the worlds a screwed up place.[%-)]

[3railguy]

QUOTE: Well, he apparently did make up a fairy tale, so now some can praise him for being so clever and others can scorn him for making patsies out of people by creating a fraud.

Oh my, where in his post did he say 1:1 factory? Like I said, you read into things to much and draw your own conclusions.

[Frank53]

save your breath Marty. Allan won't be getting over himself anytime soon. It's a pity such a knowledgeable and accomplished guy in the hobby is such a curmudgen. Yes Marty, Allan tosses around compliments like manhole covers, so it probably would cause some undue stress.

It was absolutely a 100% prank and I posted it in a place where the folks I most often fraternize with could enjoy it, as the members of that forum have been living this project with me for months now following the ongoing progress.

While others visitors to that forum - none regulars, I might add, saw fit to zoom it around to various forums wasn't in my control, and all things considered most folks saw it as what it was - just having some fun with the hobby.

Now there's a novel concept.

[MartyE]

QUOTE: Well, he apparently did make up a fairy tale, so now some can praise him for being so clever and others can scorn him for making patsies out of people by creating a fraud. But at least all will now know better than to trust his pronouncements in the future, and to take what's displayed as "news" on that MTJ forum with a large grain of salt, so all's well that ends well.

Oh get over yourself and have a good laugh. Jeez. We fell for it and we're laughing at ourselves. Would it kill you to comment on how nice the project is? Regradless of how Frank introduced it, he did a fine job on this model. Frank pulled us along and then sprung the suprise. IT WAS FUN!

[Anonymous]

Well, he apparently did make up a fairy tale, so now some can praise him for being so clever and others can scorn him for making patsies out of people by creating a fraud. But at least all will now know better than to trust his pronouncements in the future, and to take what's displayed as "news" on that MTJ forum with a large grain of salt, so all's well that ends well.

[3railguy]

I agree that Frank was only posting what he saw and heard letting us draw our own conclusions to half of what is really going on. Apparently some read into his post and are quick to make Frank out to be someone who makes up fairy tales, putting him on the spot, demanding proof. If it bothers you that much, well then go out and get your own ***ed proof.

Some are clueless to current trends in global manufacturing. They are clueless to just how much it really costs to manufacture and import products from over seas. What Frank posted pretty much follows current trends. Frank never posted Lionel is looking to move all production back here but some seem to think that's what he posted.

[Frank53]

QUOTE: Originally posted by okiechoochoo

Frank, you seem to be close to the location where this supposed plant would be, so if it is true, why not tell us the location. Allan is right, it would appear in the expenses of the court records. This is just not going to happen. It is fun watching all the "Lionel will return to the good ole days" boys jump on the non existant bandwagon.

The photos have arrived, so ll the answers can now be found here:

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=67537

[:D]

[okiechoochoo]

Frank, you seem to be close to the location where this supposed plant would be, so if it is true, why not tell us the location. Allan is right, it would appear in the expenses of the court records. This is just not going to happen. It is fun watching all the "Lionel will return to the good ole days" boys jump on the non existant bandwagon.

[MartyE]

QUOTE: When a piece of third-hand information gets posted on a public forum, what would you expect? That everyone is going to jump on board and say "Wow! What a great development!" and "Gee, I'm sure glad to learn that Lionel is moving back home."

No I do not expect it. Frank never offered fact or documents. Just what has been heard. I guess jump may have been the wrong choice of words. Personally, and not so much here, there seems to be... If he wasn't posted here it couldn't possibly be true, attitude.

Documented facts or not it certainly has opened up some good discussion. I guess my point is just because no one brought up some smoking gun doesn't mean there isn't some basis to it.

[Demon09]

QUOTE: If it isn't true it's not the end of the world for goodness sake. I don't have a problem waiting to see how this comes out one way or another.

Good point Marty. It makes for great discussion either way, and that's exactly why this forum was started-- to discuss trains and train news or hearsay even. Granted sometimes things must be taken with a grain of salt, but there is no need to take this as pure fact, and Fred didn't say it was either..... He simply said it was posted on another forum, and was great news IF true.....

QUOTE: So please point us to the documented facts.

As of yet, there are none. No one said there was, but we can all keep an eye out for them....

[Anonymous]

Maybe I missed something, but I don't see anyone jumping on anyone else here.

When a piece of third-hand information gets posted on a public forum, what would you expect? That everyone is going to jump on board and say "Wow! What a great development!" and "Gee, I'm sure glad to learn that Lionel is moving back home."

Obviously, there are going to responses from both ends of the spectrum. Isn't that what a discussion forum is all about, so long as things stay civil (which, this far, they have)?

I'll believe something like that when I read or see a statement from Jerry Calabrese or am directed to a documented account of the transaction or a report to the court of the transaction. Short of that, it seems perfectly proper to speculate back and forth about the possibility of such an event ever happening, and to debate the merits.

And it's kind of interesting to note that those who frequent the referenced forum have no reluctance at all to lifting posts and even entire threads from some other forum to post on that site. So one might logically ask why they elect not to do the same when they're in someone else's house. Trying to boost "circulation" perhaps? [;)]

[MartyE]

Personally Frank I get tired of someone innocently reporting what they heard and the world jumps on them. If it isn't true it's not the end of the world for goodness sake. I don't have a problem waiting to see how this comes out one way or another. Jeez. Once again thanks. It is making for some good discussion.

[Frank53]

Marty - you're the voice of reason as always. If this is true, hopefully sales at the corner news stand will be brisk tomorrow. [:D]

[MartyE]

I guess the thing that gets me is the original poster had just relayed the info as he heard it. I feel Frank has honestly relayed the info as he got it. He also premised it as I guess we'll see. I don't think anyone has said it is fact and Frank has offered to relay more info as it comes in. So before we all gang up on the original poster why don't we see what develops and wait. After all it won't kill us. The lawsuit has been going on for years. Thanks for the info Frank. Either way it certainly has the forums jumping. And imagine they seem to be very civil about discussing it too!

[Anonymous]

American Apparel in LA is making T shirts in the US. They don't use sweat shop labor and they don't have stuff made in China. The actually make money manufacturing stuff in the US. I don't have a clue about the rumor re Lionel, but you can still make money making stuff here.

[Anonymous]

"Since Lionel is in bankruptcy - where is the line item for the real estate transaction? Every expense has to be approved by the bankruptcy court."
----------------------

Very good point! Something of this magnitude would most certainly be reported (well in advance of any transaction being concluded), and I expect that the folks who follow each and every development in this case would already have the details to share. So please point us to the documented facts.

[phatkat64]

I would LOVE it to be true! Made in the USA should mean something again, and maybe, just maybe, it would start a trend towards turning this country away from a customer service only industry!

I for one would surely welcome that!!!

[3railguy]

The $2.00 an hour wage is true but that's only half the story. Much of the chineese worker's living expenses is picked up by the government.

[Brutus]

[#ditto]

They would probably have some stuff manufactured overseas and shipped here for assembly and finish work.

I think one thing that would drive this is a high return rate for repairs or replacement when an item was just purchased as new.

[nblum]

Actually, in the recent year there has been the beginnings of a movement to bring back manufacturing to the States, particularly for work that involves craftsmanship or intricate assembly of low volume manufactured products (trains would qualify). A Rochester, NY company that makes safes has recently moved manufacturing back here because of shipping costs and difficulty with labor quality abroad. Now trains don't weigh as much as a safe but it's conceivable that some products could be profitably assembled, tested and shipped from stateside locations (e.g. steam locomotives). We'll just have to wait and see. Transportation costs are in the process of going through the roof due to fuel costs, security during carriage, security during offloading, etc. This has all been discussed in the Wall Street Journal and many other business sources recently.

Norton, over on MTJ Forum has kindly provided a newspaper link:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060604/BUSINESS/606040317&SearchID=73247335883235

[spodwo]

?

Since Lionel is in bankruptcy - where is the line item for the real estate transaction? Every expense has to be approved by the bankruptcy court. I think it would be evident via that process. Unless it's some third party person ponying up to the bar...and how could Lionel consider this before finding out about the MTH litigation?

Oil prices are up but the average China wage is $2.00 an hour...shipping is still a bargain when bringing it over by boat.

Without specifics as to where, who, etc....its another rumor.

[thor]

Frankly I doubt it but I'd like it to be true!

As for the 'it can't be done' that simply isn't true and you don't have to hire undesirables either - meaning unskilled or badly educated people, they're a liability in any business.

When Britains traditional manufacturing went belly up it was for the same reasons as the U.S. and just as companies like Lotus and Triumph found ways to succeed despite all the doom and gloom naysayers, so too could any American company that uses modern techniques such as 'just in time' manufacturing and modern equipment. Its sad that the forces of organized labor should have to take the back seat but for a variety of reasons they do.

Key to the success of all modern businesses that have flourished where others failed is the 'find the problem and fix it' mentality as against the 'find a scapegoat and fire him/her' way of acting.

If Lionel is to survive and flourish, whoever owns it is going to have to do so with a positive, innovative management that realises the value of their work force and uses it to its best. It seems as if Jerry Calabrese and Co, have the right ideas to make a start in the renaissance of Lionel but its going to take a lot more than that, not the least of which is the goodwill and active support of its employees and customer base.

In my opinion New York would be an ideal location for a Lionel manufacturing facility. It has a huge potential labor pool, it needs the jobs and would probably offer a number of incentives if only for the political value and it has an immediate resource in terms of its capital investment, marketing skills and engineering colleges whose graduates are exactly the sort of people Lionel needs. I know this last because I taught them!

On the other hand other states and other cities can also present equally attractive reasons to choose them which is why I'd hope that if the rumor is true, New York and Lionel would see the logic behind supporting each other.

Sigh. It won't happen but it could.

[Anonymous]

The cards are heavily stacked against manufacturing in the US with some noteable exceptions.I simply doubt this story.You may see some token facilities here so Lionel can put "Made in USA" on the box for PR but I doubt even that.

If there was ever another WW2 style emergency in this country,sadly we could not manufacture enough for our needs. We simply could not make enough shoes,clothes,simple hardware or electronic goods and we could not tool up that fast nor are there enough skilled trades people to do it. We also would not have enough raw materials especially oil. This is why we have a large military all over the world keeping supplies flowing. Whether you like tis or not this is the reality of the situation.

Dale Hz

[3railguy]

QUOTE: I'm not saying it's not possible, but I can't even begin to imagine that Lionel could remain competitive manufacturing toy trains in the U.S. again, not unless they plan on using unskilled and undocumented illegals as their labor force.

Anything is possible. It is common for manufacturers to make parts over seas and do assembly here in the states which may be Lionel's intent. Intrermountain and Micro Trains do this with HO and N scale. Their prices are pretty competative.

The labor contracts Lionel was once tied to were with the UAW which is overkill for toy train manufacture. This contract may no longer exist.

Oil prices are driving shipping costs up drastically to a point it's feasible to do simple products here.

[Anonymous]

Believe it if/when you hear it from Jerry Calabrese, and not a minute before.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but I can't even begin to imagine that Lionel could remain competitive manufacturing toy trains in the U.S. again, not unless they plan on using unskilled and undocumented illegals as their labor force. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that the U.S. has simply priced itself out of the manufacturing end of things in recent years. This is now a consuming nation, supported by service industries, and that's about it. Sad, but very true.

Now, if Lionel branches out into alternative fuels for our cars, they may have a shot at it! After all, they don't necessarily need to restrict the brand to toy trains. [:)] "Lionel Biofuel" has a nice ring to it! But if that was the case, they would be looking for a refinery and not an industrial property.

And rather than speculation, why doesn't someone take the time to research the public records in whatever area this deal was supposdly concluded? Should be easy enough to either confirm or deny. I would do it myself, but am perfectly content to sit by and watch all the speculation since whatever Lionel or any of the others do in a broader business sense doesn't really impact me as a hobbyist.

[Roger Bielen]

Up go the prices, again.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: jonadel Posted:

I think I see pigs flying past the window!

Sorry, I just couldn't resist It's been a LONG day.

Jon

I think we're suddenly in the Land of Oz !!!

Where's my ruby slippers? CLICK CLICK CLICK!!
.