Good old a.c. open frame motors on new stuff. Anyone?

[msacco]

Anybody else miss these from the new stuff. I really like to work on these and peform routine maintainence.
I guess they wouldn't be right on cruise models but man I wi***hey were offered as an option on conventional engines.
Seems like Williams would be the logical choice to add this option to their Golden Memories Line. This would seal the deal for me.

Mike S.

[Anonymous]

Nope! Not interested. I like the cool-running, dependable, and maintenance free can motors. I believe you can still get open-frame Pullmor motors on Lionel's PWC line, if that's your cup of tea. You'll not see Williams venture into that area, so your best bet is to stick with Lionel.

[thor]

Yeah I agree with you but for no logical reason. Can motors will be around decades from now, maybe not the same maker but the same size or else you'll be able to modify something easily enough to suit so the maintenance issue doesnt really matter anymore though I like doing it anyway.

Another thing is the RF those AC motors generate, they're electrically noisy and I'd imagine some busybody agency or other will eventually forbid that, suppressors or not!
Also theres no real reason except for backwards compatability for modern toy trains to use such 'high' voltage or current. I've had HO locos that ran on 12volts DC with as much if not more drawbar pull as some Lionel models. G scale uses 12 volts too, doesnt it?

I'm with you but we're fighting a gallant rearguard action!

[msacco]

Looks like I'm a 41 year old dinosaur because I prefer the a.c. motors. I know Lionel offers them in PWC but it's funny when the catalog listed the PWC J with a can motor, everyone went crazy. I agreed. It seems like people only want the a.c motors when an old postwar model is being remade.
Hey, is it possible to buy a williams alco or other unit and retrofit it to run with a postwar pullmor?

Mike S.

[FJ and G]

I'm sorry, Mike, but the DC motors are good to me since I convert them to R/C. I suppose I could do the same with AC but it would be a hassle.

[1688torpedo]

Hello Mike! In order to modify a Williams engine to accept a Pullmore you would have to have basic machine shop skills to do such a thing. It would be much easier to buy one of the new Lionel Postwar series releases. BTW- The N&W-J you referred to will come equipped with a Pullmore instead of a Can Motor. Lionel Changed their mind about a month after the Catolog came out in earlier this year. I do like the Pullmore's better than the can motors as they can be worked on & are very durable. MTH & Pride Lines use open Frame Motors on some of their Tinplate as does Joe Mania who manufactures repros of old Lionel, & Carlisle & Finch Trains. So, There are some alternatives for you to consider. I guess both of us are Dinosaurs as I'm 41 also.( Until Aug 16th of this year)[:D][;)] Take Care.

[3railguy]

Can motors with ball bearings perform better than the old open frame pullmores. However, can motors don't replace the aroma of the ionized air and hot grease of a pullmore under way. If you don't have that, you have nothing.

[lionelsoni]

The two types of motors behave very differently under load.

A "can" motor has a permanent-magnet field and tries to run at a speed which is proportional to the voltage applied to it. Unfortunately, the proportionality between voltage and speed can vary from motor to motor and gear-train to gear-train. As a result, unless two locomotives are virtually identical in mechanical design, one is likely to take most of the load when double-heading. It is possible but obviously less likely that there will be a difference between the trucks of a two-motor locomotive.

A series-wound universal motor has a wound field. Under load, the increasing armature current also flows through the field winding and strengthens the field, lowering the back-emf from the armature and allowing it to adapt to a lower speed. This flexibility with regard to speed allows multiple universal motors to do a much better job of sharing the load. The same principle operates in prototype locomotives, which use series-wound motors.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: This flexibility with regard to speed allows multiple universal motors to do a much better job of sharing the load. The same principle operates in prototype locomotives, which use series-wound motors.

This is why coal haulers switched to AC motored locomotves in the 1990's. The AC motors don't overheat with massive loads at slow speed. I've noticed can motors get awful hot under similar conditions with model train operation.

[lionelsoni]

Except for the 25-hertz motors used by the likes of GG1s (16 2/3 in Europe), those AC motors are actually induction motors, a very different type from anything that we use in models.

By the way, wiring a pair of can motors in series completely solves any speed-incompatability within the locomotive. If the resulting operation is slower than you like, you might be able to identify voltage-dropping diodes that may have been put into the electronic reversing unit and bypass them to increase the speed a little.

[jefelectric]

I like the way the DC motors operate, but I also like the occasional wiff of ozone. I converted a Reading Trainmaster (from the early 90s) with pullmores to TMCC and have a PRR to do as time permits. The one I converted runs fine and has that sound and smell of old. (I didn't put railsounds in it)

[Dave Farquhar]

I still remember when I was in grade school, "ozone" was a vocabulary word in my reading class. The teacher said he had a train when he was growing up that made ozone, and it had a distinctive smell that he always called "the choo choo train smell." Someone asked if he'd bring it in and show us. He said he didn't have the train anymore but he'd give almost anything to have it back.

A couple of years later, I finally succeeded in getting Dad to pull out his old postwar Lionels and set them up. That peculiar scent of ozone and lubricants still brings back memories. The senses are a powerful thing, so I have an emotional attachment to it.

I have a couple of engines now that have can motors in them, and I have to say, generally speaking I'm impressed with them. They're cheap and they work well. But they just don't tug at me like the old stuff does.

So, yeah, the old-fashioned motor in new stuff would make it more alluring to me. Then again, it would also make it more expensive, so it would make it even less likely I could afford to buy it. But, since I'm 31, I'm not the target audience for this stuff either.

[palallin]

So far, I've burned out two or three can motors, but I've never managed to burn up a universal motor. It doesn't matter that no replacements for the univesal motors exist if, in the course of many years running, no replacements are necessary.