Soldering and Wire Gauge

[Anonymous]

In visiting RS today I saw a number a soldering irons with the majority of them under $10. I am going to take a plunge and get a iron, but first I would like to know what is a good wattage iron that most of you guys use for your wiring work? I know something like flux would be a must as well.

Since I am unable to find a replacement light fixture for one of my PS1 engines anywhere, I am just going to have to get a bayonet mini-fixture and solder it to the front of the loco myself and get the appropriate bulb to place in it, so that way my SF Dash 8 can have light again.

Also, I would guess that 14-16 gauge wire would be good for most wiring needs, including larger layouts would that be correct? Gonna have to look to getting some model train wiring books too.

[ben10ben]

For soldering big wires together, I would get suggest 45 watts as the minimum. For little wires and circuit boards, 15 watts is a good amount. For most general work, I have the Radio Shack 20-40 switchable(the one that comes with a permanantly attached "soldering station"). I also have a 15-30 for more delicate work, as well as a 100 watt and a 150 watt gun for heavy work. Oh, and I also have a 45 watt iron that rarely gets used because the 20-40 does just as good of a job where the 45 would be more apropriate.

14 or 16 gauge is preferable for layout wiring, but that's about it. It's overkill and way too hard to work with for acessory wiring, where 18 gauge or maybe even 20 would work well. For wiring inside your engines, such as the project you mentioned earlier, I would suggest 22 gauge as the largest.

[Buckeye Riveter]

Has anyone used the new instant hot soldering iron? Does it work? I saw one in a hardware store in Canada last week.

[phillyreading]

Stay away from the low priced soldering guns from Radio Shack as I got burned in the wallet by them, in plain Engli***he low priced solder guns don't work or overheat and burn out guickly. Inside the engine 20 or 18 gauge stranded wire should work fine, 22 gauge may burn-out guickly. 14 gauge wire is good for layout wiring, may want to splice a small piece of 16 gauge wire to the track connecters.
Lee

[jkerklo]

For most track power I would recommend #14 for the bus and #16 for feeder-to-track connections. Stranded #14 house wiring is the cheapest and easist to find. Buy a few colors and standardize on one color for "track common," say white, and other colors for each train circuit. I use a #10 solid bare wire for track common distribution. Bare makes it easier to solder a feeder wire anywhere.

If your layout is small, buy a 100' spool of a few colors. If your layout is, or will be, large, buy some 500' spools. It will save in the long run.

#16 and smaller wire is usually not available from home suppliers. I use local electronic stores and McMaster-Carr.

I would only buy a name brand soldering tools. For heavy wire, I use a Weller Model 8200 100/140 soldering gun. I have had one for 40 years. It is a well proven design. Still available at Lowes and such stores.

For smaller soldering, a temperature-controlled iron is best. There are different sized tips to accommodate most needs. I use a Weller WES50.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[Jumijo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

Has anyone used the new instant hot soldering iron? Does it work? I saw one in a hardware store in Canada last week.

You don't mean those instant hot/instant cool ones that are advertised on TV, do you? Someone here posted a few months back that they don't work very well.

Jim

[luther_stanton]

I have a 40W iron that I bought at Radio Shack that I use on everything from 12 gauge to 22 gauge wire. This iron can handle any wire to wire or wire to connector (spade, lug, etc.) that I have run into. In 8 months, I have had to replace the tip three times, at something like $2 per tip – and I have done a lot of soldering.

I also have a 150W / 230W Radio Shack dual power gun. I use this to solder feeder wires (12 guage) to track and solder track joints. The higher wattage gets heat to the rail quicker which helps to keep the ties from melting. In 8 months I have replaced the tip once, again, $2 or so per tip.

I do not use flux. I do suggest that you use tin / lead based rosin core solder, which in my case, has eliminated the need to flux. This also makes a cleaner joint, as separately applied flux melts and runs everywhere. The lead / tin based solder also melts and flows better for me. I have tried silver solder and it requires a lot more heat. Again, the solder I use is a Radio Shack purchase.

Two things to keep in mind is to solder a clean joint (use steel wool / sand paper if needed) and establish a good mechanical joint (twist wires together, etc.) before trying to solder.

- Luther

[Jumijo]

Luther,

Do you happen to have the part numbers for the 40w iron and tips? I'm looking into purchasing one so I can swap out smoke units, etc. How much did yours cost?

Jim

[ChiefEagles]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

Has anyone used the new instant hot soldering iron? Does it work? I saw one in a hardware store in Canada last week.

Not worth a hoot. Small stuff, OK.

I invested in a RS soldering station [$70+] but it is great. You can adjust the heat up and down and the change is almost instant. Holds it at constant temp [+- a couple of degrees]. Holds the iron. For the real tuff stuff, I use a big tip on a Welber gun.

[luther_stanton]

QUOTE: Do you happen to have the part numbers for the 40w iron and tips? I'm looking into purchasing one so I can swap out smoke units, etc. How much did yours cost?

Jim,

Here are the links from radioshack.com

Iron ($7.99 on the web):
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062738&cp=&pg=2&origkw=soldering+iron&kw=soldering+iron&parentPage=search

Replacement Tips ($1.79 on the web):
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062739&cp=&pg=1&origkw=soldering+iron&kw=soldering+iron&parentPage=search

Also, for wiring I am using the following:

Main Track Power Bus (from POHO / TPC) - 10 Gauge
Track Feeders from Power Bus (every 8 feet or so) - 12 Gauge
Accessory Bus (10V, 12V and 16V) - 14 Gauge
Accessory Feeders - 20 Gauge

When in doubt, I always go one gauge higher.

[ChiefEagles]

luther_stanton, impressed with your wire sizes. You seem to be like me [or I like you]. I like to be "over kill". I even have a special 240V circuit feeding a breaker panel [through a twist lock outlet/plug] into my train room. Everythign will run off of this panel and will be "killed" by this panel. Some people screem about wire sizes costing too much. Spend thousands of dollars on trains and etc and skimp on wire. Good job.

[luther_stanton]

Chief,

Thank you, you have taught me (and I dare say many of us on this forum) well. One of the first questions I posted on this forum was about wire size as I am finishing up my first layout. I believe that you were one to provide an answer . I have also seen in CTT and have read elsewhere about fires starting, etc. I want no part of that [:)]. And I agree that the cost is not that different - heck maybe one less 6464 which I have no room for anyway.

I have also learned valuable lessons about fuses on this forum. I have my main power buses on Scottie's fuses. Twice in as many months, I tripped them. Once with a run away Berkshire that derailed and once when I did not get a Pullman on the track correctly and dragged the truck slightly sideways across a switch. I also recently finished up a small shelf unit for all my transformers and I have now fused my accessory buses as well with 1.5A fuses.

- Luther

[Anonymous]

This may be a dumb question but, what does it mean by buses?

[ChiefEagles]

A bar [usually plastic] with several terminal screws on them to connect wire leads. I have seen then where they are not interconnected but usaually are. This allows you to attach several "jumper" wires to the same source of power without making a big "bundle" to solder or try to put on a wire nut. Usually you will have one for common [-] and one for positive [+]. Now Bob N will say you don't have - and + with AC but you get the picture.

[waltrapp]

I know that this is a bit off-topic, but it does relate to some of the replies so far.

I had my PW SF F3 overhauled by a professional. I ran it that year on my Chirstmas layout (2 months). When I went to clean it for storage in the off-season I noticed that only one little strand of wire was controlling the electricity going to the motors. After seeing that, I couldn't believe that it ran for 2 months and didn't have a problem!

Makes one wonder how much one little strand of copper wiring can handle, doesn't it?

- walt

[ChiefEagles]

Walt, that is unusual. Seems it would have run very slow or even hot. You are lucky on that one.

[lionelsoni]

"You don't have - and + with AC." How's that, Frank?

But seriously, folks. "Bus" is an interesting word. It is short for "omnibus", which is Latin in the dative case meaning "for all". It is sometimes erroneously spelled "buss", which means "kiss", possibly from confusion with the fuse company Bussman, who make "Buss" brand fuses. It is the same word that is used for big people-carrying motor vehicles.

Its electrical use comes from usually heavy bare "busbars" used to distribute electricity, which could be tapped whereever needed. In telephone switching equipment and early computers, sets of bare wires were soldered in rows through terminals of similar equipment, like circuit-card connectors, so that each card plugged into a cage could have access to the same wires for communicating within the computer. Thus bare wire is often referred to as "bus wire".

Our usage is more like the original power-distribution concept. I would call Frank's example a terminal strip, as compared to a wire or set of wires run around a layout with taps where necessary connecting to track or accessories.

Walt, I have seen that situation of a motor wire fatigued down to one or two strands many times. I think that the reason it doesn't just burn out is that the terminal and the rest of the wire are so close and able to conduct away the heat. I would bet that if the lonely strand were a few inches long, it would fuse in short order.