CW-80 Accessory power problem with fastrack RC switches.

[ADCX Rob]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wolverine49

fconnoll,


adcx rob:

Over the past two years I have probably been the most staunch defender of the CW-80 to have posted on this and the other forum. However, I do not find the work-around that reverses the function of the bell and whistle buttons to be satisfactory.

Call me picky, call me impossible to please -- whatever -- but when I hit the switch marked "windshield wipers" I don't want the sun roof to open!

wolverine49

Either one is fine with me.

We use a lot of those plastic Dymo labels(remember these?) on our control panel already, so a few more on the CW-80s won't be noticed.

Rob

[Anonymous]

If you want a schematic of the CW-80, email me at [e-mail] .

[Anonymous]

fconnoll,

Sorry that things seem to have gone from the frying pan into the soup. May I suggest a 10 amp fast-blow fuse between the transformer and track and the KW should do just fine.

adcx rob:

Over the past two years I have probably been the most staunch defender of the CW-80 to have posted on this and the other forum. However, I do not find the work-around that reverses the function of the bell and whistle buttons to be satisfactory.

Call me picky, call me impossible to please -- whatever -- but when I hit the switch marked "windshield wipers" I don't want the sun roof to open!

wolverine49

[fconnoll]

Oh, yeah, I forgot. I have a circa 1958 KW tranfomrmer (and train set--Santa Fe F series diesel freight, with "super-O track") that I could use for the accessories. Or, the train.

[fconnoll]

Thanks much for the info, and letting me know I'm not crazy.

This problem and another led me on a wild goose chase. The CW-80 fell off the train table and remarkably the whistle switch must have hit something perfectly as it broke the momentary switch under it (on the pc board). This was in coincidence with just having finished wiring the layout---several track feeds bussed together to the Track A and U, and all the RC switches and uncouplers bussed together to the Accessory B and U. I was hoping the broken whistle button wouldn't screw up the train operation..

So, I give it a try. Plug in the power cord and vooom, there goes the locomoitve running at full power (with the throttle off). At that time I thought somehow the defunct whistle button was doing this (the good part of my brain was skeptical about this, but the coincidence--and only coincidence and not cause and effect-- of the power hookup problem and the smashed button was not to be seen at the time).

I had to fix the whistle button anyway. The roomfull of monkeys that designed the CW-80 used screws with a triangular head, a tool for which I could not find. I did pay $5 or so for a triangle drive bit that was too small, and wound up making my own tool to remove the screws.

I found replacement pc mount momentary switches on-line, but then on to the "the transformer is broken somehow and the train runs as full power" problem. Despite having at least 3 more electrical engineering degrees than most people, an oscilloscope, and quite a bit of experience with electronics and debugging electronic and electrical problems, I concluded somehow that the output stage triacs were on all the time. I found some, purchased them, and still the train went beserk when the power cord was plugged in. The triacs, I think, were not ailing--at least I know more about triacs than I did before, and learned what's in the CW-80.

And at least I had fixed the whistle switch.

The darn thing (CW-80) is pretty difficult to get back together properly (the internal layout is not conducive to putting it back together--too many permuations of where wires can be, and I think I haven't found the correct permuation yet).

Anway, thanks again.

[Kooljock1]

Lionel replaced their transformer engineering department with a room fulll of monkeys, box full of parts, and a soldering iron.

'nuff said.

Jon [8D]

[ADCX Rob]

Remember, you heard it here first - this can be worked out easily. "Common" is just a reference, so looking at the CW-80, A & B are connected internally & "common", so use these for outside rail & ground connections. Use the respective "U" terminals as the power, or variable taps, for the track & accessories/switches. Lionel's own set manuals suggest & address this exact scenario, with the whistle & bell buttons reversed(a minor caveat), in the section on phasing transformers on page 18:

http://www.lionel.com/products/productnavigator/InstructionManuals/73-1990-250.pdf

The CW-80 works great with accessories & switches in this fashion, & still retains it's UL listed properties.

Rob

[Anonymous]

fconnoll,

Welcome to the forum.

EVERYONE has had that probem. There is no easy way to do what you want at no additional cost. You have stumbled onto what is (in my opinion) the most annoying shortcoming of the CW-80.

There are reams about this limitation on this and the other major forum as a simple search will show..

It is known as the (lack of a) "common ground" problem.

Don't know what you have in the way of instructions for the CW-80 but you can read (and print out) a full 12 page Owners' Manual from the Lionel.com website. Despite the fact that there is an inconsistency on page 5 which has precisely to do with hooking the device up correctly, I recommend studying it. (As I recall the inconsistency does NOT have to do with hooking up Fastrack.) In any event, according to a call to Lionel technical services, the A post should be wired to the center rail, the U post under it to an outside rail.

The same tech advised me that the only way to do what you want is to power the switch by a second transformer. It can be an inexpensive one, but a second one nonetheless. (Some folks are sure to suggest replacing the CW-80, but I won't, at least for now.)

The floodgates should now open, and members will jump in with any number of clever "solutions," including the one you have already tried. When the dust settles, please remember you heard it here first.

Note: in the "reverse hook-up" that you have already tried, if you pu***he "Bell" button, the Whistle may sound. Some folks find this solution acceptable, I do not and do not recommend it.

wolverine49

[fconnoll]

WIth a CW-80 and fastrack RC switches, it appears impossible to use the CW-80 Accessory terminals to power the switches using AUX IN and AUX GND. The switches short AUX GND to the track outer rails, and thus the Accessory and Track U terminals get shorted (The A and B terminals are internally connected on the CW-80). The effect is the train runs as if under full power with the throttle off.

I can run the train with the A and U reversed (U goes to center rail), but the whistle does not function that way, and I'm not sure if that would solve the power problem anyway.

I read in another post where it sounded like someone else had the same problem (followed instructions, which are mediore, and it does not work--i.e., can not run train and power accessory off the CW-80 with fastrack).

Has anyone else had such a problem? Thanks.

More details:

We have a Penn. Flyer FasTrack set with CW-80 xfmr. I bought some track, remote control switches, and access. to expand the layout and am having a problem using AUX power for the switches and accessories. In the CW-80 the A (Track) and B (Accessory) terminals are internally connected. The train runs fine without the accessory power wires connected, and and the accessories/switches work fine without the train power wires connected. However, on the switches the AUX GND is internally connected to the track outer rails (and thus the U Track terminal). The switch instructions say to connect the xfmormer Accessory A terminal to AUX IN and the Accessory U terminal to the AUX GND. Since the AUX GND is connected to the track outer rails which get connected to the Track U terminal, this has the effect of shorting the two U terminals together. When both accessory and track power wires are connected the train runs as if on full power (with the throttle off).

Is there any way to use the CW-80 Accessory power for switch AUX power with Fastrack?