cw80 question - modding the light

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

Just got my son a new Thomas O-Gauge kit, and as we've read, we are having some quirks with direction and all with the CW80 and direction and stuff.

I did put an email inquiry to Lionel's tech support, but in the meantime, after a lot of reading, and having some electronics knowledge, I have a question for the group here --

The direction button for Thomas works intermittently in the oval mode, and not at all in the circle mode, so it's pretty clear that the small lamp in the straight piece is needed to drop enough volts or amps, or for long enough, for thomas to go backwards.

However, even in the oval mode, it's intermittent, so is it possible that this lamp in the straight piece just needs to be bigger? Anyone know the specs of it and/or where to order a slightly larger one to drop a tad more?

I'm assuming at this entry level, the unit is not regulated, and our wall voltages creep from 123 to over 125 VAC, so measuring the VAC with an accurate DMM also reflects around 20 W where I think it was spec'd for 18 W?

Anyways, if anyone can point me to a DIY clip on lamp plan, or specs for a replacement lamp, that would be great. I probably should only do a clamp on bulb and wait for a reply from Lionel, as maybe they have either a replacement straight piece with different lamp, or want to swap out the CW80 or whatever.

Other than those quirks above, we're very happy with the set. Thanks for any ideas on bulbs or other interim fixes for direction issues.

[Anonymous]

digging around and looking at the standard fastrack terminal 10" straights, it appears the regular ones (6 12016) don't have this lamp that is in the Thomas kit?

Is this terminal strip specific to the Thomas kit? Do Polar Express or other entry CW80 kits not need the lamp V dropping for direction to work?

Anyone know where I could get a P/N for this Thomas version of the 12016? I don't want to buy or mod one yet until Lionel tech replies, but having a P/N may help me google and find specs of this piece. Thanks!

[lionelsoni]

You might want to search the forum for "CW80". Much has been written here about its shortcomings.

[Anonymous]

ampguy,

First, welcome to the forum. You will soon learn that Bob Nelson (lionelsoni) will never lead you astray. (I might, but he won't.)

I think you are definitely on the right track already, so to speak.

The advanced search function on this and the other major forum (OGR) probably contain more than you will ever want to know in the way of information (and misinformation) about your problem with the Thomas/CW-80 combination.

As you are looking for an explanation and quick fix, try the Advanced Search feature and key in: CW-80 Thomas load. You should find a thread that starts with a post by wrmcclellan as recently as yesterday. Note: at the bottom of the Advance Search page you will need to set the "between" (start date) back a bit in order to provide a reasonable interval for the search.

This is not likely to be a serious problem. The CW-80 simply needs a proper load at all times, and evidently the Thomas set doesn't always provide it all by itself.

As for the part number have you tried the www.Lionel.com site and looked under Customer Service?

Hope this helps, and that your boy gets to play with his new train without further delay.


wolverine49

[lionelsoni]

That's quite an endorsement, which I'm not sure I deserve. When I make mistakes, I am glad to have other forum members around to set me straight.

[jefelectric]

Why not just hook up a few street lights or something similar and see if that corrects the problem? Might be a little less hassle than trying to change the lamp which may not be available with a larger current draw with the same base.

[Anonymous]

almost a year ago I sent a check to a club based in chicago for a great northern work train that was to be delievered in april .It is may and I have not heard a word about this train or its delievery IT was advertised.in classic toy trains,. Does any one have any informantion on this?

[Anonymous]

Thanks!!

Yes, a few xmas lights would probably be best, but from what I could find handy, was a 40W 120V incandescent regular bulb, and a 12V car type of bulb. They both work, but of course the little car one was getting hot, should be 18+V, the 40W/120V works, just have to find a way to keep it out of the way so the kids don't smash it until I can get an 18V bulb down at HD or Lowes, or better yet, if lionel tech has some fix, ideally an upgraded version of the terminal board with built-in mini light with enough draw to enable the direction to work right (or fix/redesign the CW80, maybe a long shot with that!!).

Thanks for all the help here. I'll let everyone know what Lionel says about it. Or if nothing, then I'll post a pic soon of what I end up with, some kind of 18V bulb safely attached replacing the 40W incandescent that doesn't light, but draws enough for direction to work with Thomas.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jefelectric

Why not just hook up a few street lights or something similar and see if that corrects the problem? Might be a little less hassle than trying to change the lamp which may not be available with a larger current draw with the same base.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Here are two work arounds that work for me.

1. Add a lighted caboose.
2. Get a lamp from your hobby shop and put it across the track terminals.

Also, I believe that all the recent fastrack sets have the lighted terminal track as a fix for the CW-80

Jim H

[Anonymous]

thanks! I've rigged up a 40 W/120 V bulb across the tracks that does it. But I will replace this with an 18V smaller/safer bulb shortly. Also found the other threads and posted there.

Thanks!

[phillyreading]

Welcome to the forum ampguy,
Have you tried going to Radio Shack for light bulbs? They have 14.8 volt bulbs and others to choose from.
Other thing to consider as I read a lot of the forum posts is to replace the CW-80 transformer with a more dependable transformer.
Lee Fritz

[Anonymous]

Thanks,

Went to the auto store and got 2 small 12V bulbs wired in series which is dropping enough for reverse to work.

Also, lionel tech support is sending a new terminal track w/embedded light which will hopefully drop enough for direction to work.

Still intermittent stops and hiccups occasionally, but we'll fix one thing at a time with the lionel tech folks.

Maybe we can get our son a new transformer for xmas.

pic of temp fix for direction:

QUOTE: Originally posted by phillyreading

Welcome to the forum ampguy,
Have you tried going to Radio Shack for light bulbs? They have 14.8 volt bulbs and others to choose from.
Other thing to consider as I read a lot of the forum posts is to replace the CW-80 transformer with a more dependable transformer.
Lee Fritz

[Anonymous]

ampguy,

Don't give up on the CW-80 too soon. To put it another way, given its present condition, I will be happy to take it off your hands by paying shipping charges. I say this knowing full well that the warrantly is not transferable, and that there are no provisions for repair.

One tip: be sure to save your receipt. Lionel will REPLACE a defective transformer, with almost no questions asked, if it has not been tampered with, within one-year of purchase IF (and normally only if) you have a receipt, AND if you purchased it from a Lionel authorized dealer. In fact, your dealer may have some in stock that Lionel has sent him just for that purpose.

Having said that, I think your CW-80 is probably OK. I have purchased three of them and have not had any problems, but one does have to understand the thing. I also have a 1032 and a 1033 and overall much prefer the CW-80, especially for modern trains with their sensitive electronic components.

A number of members of this forum, including Allan Miller and Lee Fritz, whose opinions I respect, repeatedly disagree with me on this issue. I stand by my OPINIONs, however, and would be happy to discuss them with you.

There is one thing that Allan, Lee and I can probably agree on. When one buys a "starter" set, it should work correctly right out of the box. There are few domestic disasters worse than a child with a new train that won't run.

This seldom happened in the postwar era (although is certainly did in the sorry years of Fundimensions) and I have trouble understanding why Lionel has let this CW-80 mess, which is a public relations screw-up as much as a technical one, go on so long.

wolverine49

[phillyreading]

wolverine49,
I agree with you on the starter sets, being that there should be no problems with it out of the box and into at least two years of continued use.
However have you read how many posts and comments on the CW-80 transformer here on CTT? It seems to me(my opion) that Lionel Trains should have pulled this transformer from the market or modified the internal construction of it to work better. How many people are going to take the time to trouble shoot any problems with starter sets having the CW-80 transformer in it? Most will be returned and many dis-appointed children!
I am not a Lionel basher but when a product is a DUD almost 50% of the time a company should fix the problem.
Lee Fritz

[Anonymous]

If Im not mistaken Lionel has a Different Version of The CW-80. I purchased one from them ,seperate from any set, and the number scale is completely different in what numbers, and the spacing. Maybe they did fix this. just not in sets yet? Just lettin you guys know

[Anonymous]

Hi Lee and Wolverine,

Not giving up on it at all. Although I'm new to O-Gauge trains, I'm familiar with analog and digital electronics and understand how this is working (thanks for previous posters info.!!).

I was aware of the concerns of the CW80 long before I bought the Thomas set, and agree with everyone here who is saying a starter kit should come with something that just works out of the box 100% (or as close as possible). Anyways, so far, Lionel tech. support has been responsive, and my unit is under warranty, so I will expect to get some usage out of it, whether 90 days or 1 yr. whatever, and then replace, with either an older unit, another vendors unit, or maybe Lionel will have a CW-80 II out by then.

Another interesting unexpected advantage to these quirks is if I end up DIY fixing this thing for many more fixes or mods, I'll be able to teach my son more about electronics.

I don't think the failure rate is 50%, I've heard more like 1 in 5 on other forums are actually defective. I think that some of the fixes Lionel has just done in other parts like the embedded lamp stuff for the Thomas set to drop the voltage will fix some of the compatibility issues.

So it's a keeper, might get shelved next year, but it is what it is.

QUOTE: Originally posted by wolverine49

ampguy,

Don't give up on the CW-80 too soon. To put it another way, given its present condition, I will be happy to take it off your hands by paying shipping charges. I say this knowing full well that the warrantly is not transferable, and that there are no provisions for repair.

One tip: be sure to save your receipt. Lionel will REPLACE a defective transformer, with almost no questions asked, if it has not been tampered with, within one-year of purchase IF (and normally only if) you have a receipt, AND if you purchased it from a Lionel authorized dealer. In fact, your dealer may have some in stock that Lionel has sent him just for that purpose.

Having said that, I think your CW-80 is probably OK. I have purchased three of them and have not had any problems, but one does have to understand the thing. I also have a 1032 and a 1033 and overall much prefer the CW-80, especially for modern trains with their sensitive electronic components.

A number of members of this forum, including Allan Miller and Lee Fritz, whose opinions I respect, repeatedly disagree with me on this issue. I stand by my OPINIONs, however, and would be happy to discuss them with you.

There is one thing that Allan, Lee and I can probably agree on. When one buys a "starter" set, it should work correctly right out of the box. There are few domestic disasters worse than a child with a new train that won't run.

This seldom happened in the postwar era (although is certainly did in the sorry years of Fundimensions) and I have trouble understanding why Lionel has let this CW-80 mess, which is a public relations screw-up as much as a technical one, go on so long.

wolverine49

[Anonymous]

phillyreading

Lee, I knew we could find something to agree on.

The other day, someone posted that there are 25,000 CW-80's out there -- if I read it right. (I did a quick search but cannot find it again.) Where did he get that number?

You say that 50% are duds. Where did you get that number?

Do you believe that there are over 12,000 bad CW-80's out there? I don't, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't have the numbers, one way or the other.

I have bought three and have had no problems with any of them. Two came from authorized dealers, one came from auction. (Based on the packaging, it was from a set.) I have a full set of instructions for each of them which I downloaded from the Lionel website and corrected slightly. I have given one of them away -- to a person I want to remain friends with.


It has been said that you get forty complaints for every compliment. (Don't ask me where I got that number.) I submit that many of the complaints on the forums are from folks who have no personal experience with the CW-80 and who are simply repeating what has been posted by others.

It is also clear that many owners have neither read nor understood the instructions. One owner, who shall remain nameless, reported that his CW-80 just died, "for no reason." When pressed, he admitted he had hooked it up incorrectly, taped down one of the controls, and then experienced a derailment/short-circuit. C'mon now, let's be fair.

Another member has been questioning the safety of the CW-80, but so far I have not seen any facts to back it up? Has anyone had an actual safety issue with an INTACT CW-80. I really want to know. My granddaughter and my best friend's grandchildren play with these things.

The same fear-mongers extoll the postwar ZW's and the 1033's. The oft-rotten power cords on these things are a major safety issue, and the old ZW has been called "an electrocution waiting to happen." (Who said that? I don't know -- it might have been the villiage idiot -- but I have replaced the power cords and trollers on ALL of my postwar transformers, and I fuse EVERYTHING, including my CW-80's.

Does anyone believe that the postwar ZW or 1033 designs could get UL approval today, even if brand new? I submit that if they could, Lionel would have reproduced them.

Let me be clear that I am very disappointed with Lionel for this mess, but based on my personal experience I am less concerned with the technics that with the ongoing public relations debacle.

The irony here is that I know of shortcomings in the CW-80 matter (not safety related, and not with the gadget itself) that I find more of a problem than what is normally discussed hereabouts.

wolverine49

[Anonymous]

not to change the subject but isnt it great that lionel finally made it into the real world i mean tony and the gang on hbo 8 pm central .the sprans cant be beat. dont you knowkeep running them trains bobby old man cowen had to pay off the new jersey and new york mob to ship his OVER priced crap. if a train went out on tony he would get the stuff fixed pronto. no waiting in line. keep running those trains bobby. carp should do a story about this.after all everybody that worked those slave labor wadges at lionel was fresh off the boat.