Do you ever repack the motor grease?

[FJ and G]

At 1:30 a.m. this morning I suddenly got the urge to open up my Williams SD-45 and see how the motor is connected to the gears. It was my first foray into the unknown and was pretty exciting.

Lo and behold there was a giant screw coming out of the motor (who'd a thunk?).

It was packed in grease. Since I have the unit opened, would now be a good time to repack the grease or do any other types of light maintenance. (I did remove some dust and hound hair)?

[Jumijo]

As long as you have it opened up, do the maintenance.

The Chief and I talk about this subject pretty regularly. We both believe in keeping our trains well lubed. We also agree that we'd rather err on the side of more, not less. I know that flies in the face of conventional wisdom, but when I put a drop of oil or grease somewhere, it's a good sized drop.

Jim

[Anonymous]

There seem to be four issues with motor (gearbox) grease:

1. Removing the old grease, especially if it has hardened to a waxy rock as the old Lionel grease was prone to do. You're on your own here;

2. Matching the old grease, especially if you forgo #1;

3. Using only grease that is compatible with plastic, if there are any plastic parts directly involved or in close proximity;

4. Keeping the grease where it is needed to do any good.

A couple of years ago, Jim Barrett of OGR magazine did an article on toy train lubrication. At that time he recommended a product called Lucas Red 'n' Tacky, which I tried. I don't know whether Jim still recommends it.

It is said never to harden and to be plastic-compatible. If you pull on a blob of it, it will stretch until it breaks and then "snap back." This physical property is supposed to keep it adhering to parts that spin at high speed; that is, to keep it from being slung-off the very parts that it is intended to lubricate.

I find it just a little thick (viscous) for small locomotives, especially when cold. Once things have warmed up, however, it performs pretty much as advertised. It might as well be called "Red 'n' Clingy."
And red it is! It's somewhat difficult to get off your hands.However, I have seen absolutely no signs of it hardening or gunking up, but there are other greases that meet that requirement. It is the "clinginess" that sets it apart. Of course, badly worn bushings will allow any grease, including RnT, to leak. Your mileage may vary.

wolverine49

[FJ and G]

Thanks; 2 follow ups:

1. Since I'm dissassembling all of the wheels from the trucks (to grind down the flanges a bit), now would seem a good time to repak/regrease. I'm thinking of removing the old grease with a Q-tip and then rinsing off the gears with denatured alcohol. Is that the usual way of doing it?

2. Since all of the gears are metal, I'll likely repak it with white lith

Since I'm running the loco outside, will likely do this procedure at least once a year if not more frequently, since it will get harder use than indoor locos.

Thanks

[Jumijo]

Dave,

How do you get the wheels off the trucks? And how do you put them back? I have a Williams 2023 Alco with a bent wheel.

I'd spray clean the gears with tuner spray. It melts grease and oil on contact. Q-Tips leave fiber residue. Or, since the gears are all metal, I suppose you could use mineral spirits to clean them. That's what the old timers used to clean PW Lionels.

Jim

[FJ and G]

Jim, I removed the truck and noticed some small screws in the back. I was going to remove as much as I possibly can. If the wheels don't come out, then I'll regrind the flange with the truck intact and then dunk the entire truck in mineral spirits, to remove any metal flakes.

Would that work?

[Jumijo]

Dave,

I think those small screws hold the side frames on to the truck. The wheels looked to me like they were pressed on through holes in the one-piece truck. Your's might be different. I'm sending just the truck back to Williams for repair/replacement. I thought you might have some insight into removing the wheels since you've been grinding down flanges lately.

P.S. Why were you up at that hour taking your loco apart? I think I was dreaming of Maryanne and Ginger at 1:30 AM. "More banana cream pie, Jim"[:P][;)][:O]

[FJ and G]

Jim,

Thanks. I'll take it apart as far as I can. I'm, btw, grinding the flanges at 30 degrees, as I found that grinding them straight makes the flanges wider than now (they're tapered) and a narrow profile is needed to make it thru the flangeways and frogs.

It was raining here all day so I cleaned the basement (tools and stuff scattered everywhere, took all day); but felt bad that I didn't work on the layout and had trouble sleeping.

I also removed the speaker and sound board from the SD-45, as I don't really care that much for the sounds and now I have more room to play around with inside the shell.

It is a satisfying feeling becoming familiar with all of the internal workings of a locomotive and I hope this experience will allow me to perform some types of routine maintenance in the future.

Cheers.

[Jumijo]

I agree, Dave. Learning to fix these things and finding out how they work is pretty cool. I can still remember how nervous I was taking my first shell off a frame to see what was inside.

Williams suggests repacking grease after every 25 hours of use. Oil lubrication should be done after every 8 - 10 hours. Don't let the mineral spirits near the shell and you'll be fine.

Jim

[thor]

My favorite crud/grease/oil solvent is kerosene. Its cheap and it does the job and I haven't had any nasty effects on plastics from using it. I use a small stiff paintbru***o clean off grease and mung from mechanisms and my rule with grease is that if it looks okay, leave it. I'm using black lithium grease and so far no ill effects.

If you want or need a lube that stays in place try motorcycle chain spray. They make it for compatability with rubber O ring chains, it sprays on all foamy and seems too light but then the solvents boil away leaving a very sticky grease in place which is incredibly tenacious and will NOT wash off easily so dont get it on any important items of clothing!

(My bikes always wait for me to put a suit on before breaking down, which is why my only remaining suit is kept under guard by the wife and only issued in the complete absence of any likelihood of a vehicle being involved!)

[Jumijo]

Thor,

I'm going to buy some of that motorcycle chain spray for my garage door opener's chain. What a pain that is to oil!

Jim

[lionelsoni]

Dave, removing wheels is usually done with a wheel puller. You hook its two arms behind the flanges and tighten down the center screw onto the end of the axle, using the largest center pin that will clear the hole in the wheel. Do not try to pull the wheel off just by turning the screw, unless it comes off very easily. Instead, just tighten up the screw and tap on the end of the puller with a hammer. After each tap, you should be able to turn the screw a little farther, until the wheel comes off.

Lacking a wheel puller, and depending on how your truck is made, you may be able to support the wheel on two ledges, like the jaws of a vise, and drive the axle out with a punch. You might also be able to do it with a screwdriver inserted behind the wheel, between the hub and the truck casting, and turned to put some force on the wheel while you drive the axle with the punch. (This screwdriver methog requires that you have three hands.)

You can press the wheels back on with a vise. The difficulty here is that one will always go on easier than the other, leaving the axle off-center; so you need to be able to press the axle from one end while pressing a wheel hub from the other. I have a couple of (metric) machine screws that I put in my vise for this. I take the jaws off the vise and put the screws into two of the facing tapped holes that were used for the jaws. Both screws have their heads cut off. The end of one is ground down to a diameter that clears the hole in the wheel, so that it can push on the axle without touching the wheel. The other has a pair of nuts on it that I can lock together to leave a crater in the outer nut so that it can push on the wheel hub without touching the axle.

[FJ and G]

Thanks, Bob,

Might come in handy on the loco.

Most of my rolling stock has plastic trucks and you can pull them apart a little to remove the wheels (just like on the old HO). Some of the trucks, tho, are poorly made and fall apart (sort of like your coupler) [:D]

I notice that my MTH diesels have handy dandy screws that allow the trucks to be fully dissembled. Didn't notice any on the Williams.

BTW, we talk a lot on the forum about lubrication but I don't often see a post that goes into detail about full dissassembly. But I'm sure someone will bring one up now that I mention it.

[lionelsoni]

Dave, I took my Rail King GTEL gas turbine apart last night and didn't find any way to get the wheels off except to pull them. The truck is a solid casting, just like the traditional Lionel designs, with fake sideframes applied. Maybe yours are different.

[FJ and G]

Bob,

I keep some of my trains at work to play with. :-)

So, was able to take a photo (2nd photo) of the handy-dandy screws (4 of them clearly visible) holding the truck frames in place in my SW-9 Railking (loco is in 1st photo)

How innovative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bani***hose wheel pullers!

[lionelsoni]

Dave, I think you'll find that all those screws do is to hold the fake sideframes on. The sideframes have no contact with the wheels nor the axles. They are just for show. On the prototype, they contain the wheel bearings. But the model has inside bearings pressed into that large black casting in the middle. The axles pass through that casting and have the wheels pressed onto them. So, to get the wheels or axles off, you have to pull the wheels off of the axles. If the worm wheel is on one of the axles, you have to pull both wheels off of that axle.

[FJ and G]

Thanks, appearances were deceiving. Hopefully when I disassemble it and then perform maintenance and reassemble, I don't end up with a pile of leftover parts. This happened to me changing a headlight in my Jeep Wrangler. The headlight appeared secure until I hit some bumps and it became sort of a rotating Mars light. [:D]

[lionelsoni]

Dave, the Lionel Berkshires were made the way you imagined, with a plate on the bottom that could be removed to lift he wheel-axle-bearing assemblies out, without pulling wheels.