Real beginner.

[Anonymous]

Used to have toy trains in the 1950's, what was most common scale back then? Can you tell me the difference between "O" and "S" scales, which is larger? In the 1950's who was the manufacturer who sold the most sets, American Flyer or Lionel? Any info appreciated, thanks[?]

[dbaker48]

Bikergeorge2002, Welcome to the forum [#welcome][#welcome]

I'm sure you will enjoy it. I have only been on since Jan, and the information is overwhelming. And, you'll find a pretty good group of guys. Still some good humored rivalry going on between the yanks and the rebs, but so far it ends up in a stalemate.

Regarding your question ;
1. Most common scale was probably O scale.
2. O scale is a little larger than S scale. O is 1/48th and S is 1/64th, I think. I'm sure it will be clarified. O scale was predominately Lionel, while S was American Flyer.
3. Who sold the most sets? Lionel, unless you had American Flyer, then it was AF.

To start a real discussion the question you left out was which was better? I had Lionel, but in my opinion AF had better quality but not as much variety. I didn't like the track either it set to high, but that's my opinion. AF definetly had the better accessories, and what AF did produce when compared to the Lionel equivalent, I think was probably better.

But, you'll get a lot of other responses very soon! Us guys on the left coast have the time advantage, and ALWAYS have the opportunity for the last word.

Welcome again, and enjoy!

Pleased to be the 1st to welcome you.

[Kooljock1]

George,

According to several sources, Lionel out-sold American Flyer by three to one in their peak years. Peak years for both companies were 1952, 53, and 54. "O" Gauge as mentioned is larger than "S".

An interesting side-note to all of this: it is often mentioned that Lionel sales started to plummet due to the shrinking size of American homes in the 1950's and 1960's. This led to the expansion of the H.O.(Half "O") scale market. But there are two factors that seem to fly in the face of that claim. One is that most H.O. track has about the same curve diameter as "O" or "O-27" track, thus taking up just about as much room, and the other is that the smaller American Flyer line also saw it's numbers shrink over the same period.

I would rather argue that both companies were so focused on their own competition with each other, that they failed to notice the aging of the baby boom and the consequential changing of tastes from "toy" trains to "model" trains. Both companies were in a position to make that leap with their customers, and both companies instead chose to go further afield with their "toy" line. This gave the H.O. manufacturers a monopoly on the "serious" modelers...one that they would own until Lionel released the Reading T-1 in 1991!

Jon [8D]

[Anonymous]

AF was bought out by AC Gilbert around the time of WW-2. He abandoned O Gauge and switched to "S" and went with a two rail AC track system. While it did have two rails, it didn't look any more realistic than Lionel's 3 rail track. Both companies saw themselves as TOY companies that made TOY trains. The market started turning from this in the 50's and Lionel/Gilbert never made the transition. Even Marx had a hard time and companies like Mattel, Ideal, Remco were able to turn the toy business on it's ear.

While Lionel had introduced some scale O gauge models, most of these units required more space than most people were willing to allocate for a hobby. HO's tightest curves are equivalent to O-72 but will fit on a sheet of 4x8 plywood. Scale modelers switched over to HO and then N because you could run realistic scale trains in reasonable spaces and the companies making the trains were concerned with issues of accuracy and fidelity over "play value", i.e. these weren't children's toys anymore.

[otftch]

WHAT...............Stalemate............Nah....
Ed

[overall]

And then, about 1973(?) LGB came along and shifted the peridyme by building high quality large scale trains that could withstand outdoor running. For all practical purposes, space outdoors was unlimited. Charles S Small wrote an article about LGB for Model Railroader magazine back in the early seventies which was my first introduction to the concept. He had built an outdoor layout using LGB equipment. I wondered at the time how such a thing could work, but it did.

George

[Dave Farquhar]

Don't forget Marx. Marx outsold American Flyer, and if I remember right, its production rivaled that of Lionel some years. The saying in the '50s was that if your dad had a good job, you had a Lionel or American Flyer train, and if your dad didn't have a good job, you had a Marx.

But a lot of Lionel and American Flyer layouts ended up having at least one Marx accessory on them. My dad's parents, who were well-to-do but, to put it politely, thrifty, bought him a couple of Lionel O27 sets, then they expanded it with Marx track and switches, so they could build a fairly large layout with the Lionel prestige on the cheap.

A Lionel layout actually took up less space than a Flyer layout, because AF used 40-inch diameter track. Lionel's smaller, entry-level O27 sets ran on 27-inch diameter track (as did Marx), while the larger sets ran on 31-inch diameter track. Both were undersize for the scales Lionel was using, but in the early '50s, judging by the sales figures, most of the people buying them didn't care much.

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much for the replies and all the grear info. Another question please, what is an "E" unit.

[pbjwilson]

The e-unit is an electrical device in the engine which when power to the track is interupted cycles the motor from forward to neutral to reverse. That would be a 3 position e-unit. There are also 2 position - forward / reverse - e units in some engines.
I think it just stands for "electrical unit".

Welcome to the forum!

[lionelsoni]

My theory is that, when "e-units" were a novelty, before the war, Lionel sold many locomotives in two versions, with and without the e-unit. Those with it had an "E" added to the model number, for something like "electrical reversing"; so the letter came to be associated with the reversing unit itself.