What am i looking for, A time out relay?

[c50truck]

I know what I'm trying to do, just not sure what I need to be buying, if anything

I've been known not to KISS.

I'm putting together an O gauge setup for public exposure. A simple loop in a retail environment. I do not want the train running constantly. I'm trying to build a large button kids or adults can pu***o start the action. But I feel I need a relay that will ignore the child who constantly pushes the button, similar to the person at a cross walk who keeps pushing the walk button.

I also want this train to stop after a set time, until the button is pushed again. Am I over my head, or is this achievable.

I have accounts and access to Grainger and Stoneway electric. Great people, but they are there to get me what I need, not tell me what I need.

Any direction or help I would appreciate.

Rod L

After rereading this post and Bob's answer I realize some clarification is needed. I plan on having the poweresource ( transformer) constantly on throughout the day. The relay will only be used to energize the track. I want to use the relay to seperate the powersource from the user. I wi***o use DC low voltage, (door bell voltage), to run to the start switch. This will be older postwar trains only running.

Just trying to protect the train while giving an individual a small amount of control.

Bob's right on the timer. I was thinking some relays had a built in time sequence, and thats what I should be looking for. Dayton makes H/D timers of all time intervals and amps. But I still need a relay I'm sure to start it all, and protect the train from an overzealous individual..

Rod L

[BobbyDing]

Rod,
I assume your looking for something on the low voltage side, but I'll toss this your way anyway.

One idea that comes to mind are those wall switches with built in timers. Where you hit the switch when you come into a room and it stays on a preset amount of time. I don't know how much load they can handle, and it would depend upon the transformer being used (not sure how a CW-80 would handle contsant on/off's of it's power). Of course that would be on the high voltage side, and the safety codes for a retail enviroment might restrict this unless installed by a lisenced electrician. It would have to be an industial model as well, since it will be continually hammered by the public.

Some of these Christmas wholesalers on the web might have something like that for Christmas displays. I went looking for Christmas lights on the web last year and came across several sites that had everything you could imaging for holiday displays. They may sell programable timers/delays. Something like that would get around the electrician only install if it's a UL device that you can plug between the wall and the power pack.

On the low voltage side, somebody must sell a relay that would do this (and if somebody does, Granger would probably carry it) , but again since it is in a public area, a sealed UL approved device might be required. Have you tried Google searching for "12V Timer" or "Low Voltage Timer"? Check ebay too. That's a good place to fing oddball items. You might also check some auto parts/stereo sites. They sell a lot of 12V items for stereos. They might sell something that keeps the lights in your car on for 5 minutes after you shut the car off (an ad on for older cars). Last year I came across a web site dedicated to 12V devices. I don't remember the web address. They sold a bunch of 12V goodies. Yes, they would be made for DC, but you may be able to make it work for you. Again, do a Google search on "12 VOLT" and see what pops up.

Maybe instead of a timer they could stand on a foot pedal that triggers the trains? Probably pick one up at a music store. It would only run when they're standing on it though.

Oh, and take a wander thru Wal-Mart too. Their Garden and/or Automotive sections. You never can tell what you'll find.

I don't know if this was any help. Just thought I'd toss a few ideas your way. Hopefully somebody else here can direct you to exactly what you need.

Bobby

[thor]

What about one of those apartment stairwell light switches? Its a knob you turn and it winds back to zero then kills the power. Look it up at the Square D site, if they have one or any electrical supply house.

I doubt the voltage thing is an issue.

Of course you could always build a simple circuit using a 555 timer to control a relay that does the actual switching?

[lionelsoni]

I suggest that you use HVAC relays. They are cheap and they run on 24 volts AC. Here is a design that you might use:

There are three relays, K1, K2, and K3. K1 is an electromechanical relay with two normally-open contacts. One of these is used only to power the train. The other is in series with K1's relay coil and in series with a normally-closed contact on K3. This series string is across a 24-volt control transformer secondary. The pushbutton that the public pushes is wired in parallel with K1's second contact. So, when the button is pressed, K1 operates and latches itself on; and the train runs.

K2 is a Klixon-type sequencer, which is a thermal relay with a single normally-open contact. The heater of K2 is wired in parallel with K1's coil, so that it begins heating when the train starts. K2's contact is wired in series with the K3's coil. When K2 closes, after a time, K3 operates and switches off current to K1 and K2, by means of the aforementioned normally-closed contact. K1 releases immediately, stopping the train. K2 takes a while to cool down before releasing, keeping K3 operated and preventing the train from operating until then. When K2 finally releases, so does K3; and pushing the button restarts the cycle.

A variation on this design is to use a normally-closed sequencer for K2 and use that contact directly to disable K1, eliminating the need for K3. Unfortunately, sequencers seem to come only in normally-open versions. However, I have successfully converted one by carefully prying it open and turning the little bimetallic dome inside upside-down, to make it normally closed.

[jkerklo]

Three-Rail Innovations' "Two Lighting Relays" controller will do just what you want.

See www.Three-Rail.com

[c50truck]

A big thanks to all who responded. Thanks for the link Jkerklo, lots of interesting stuff there.

Bob Nelson,
Thanks for the info. I'm impressed you could even understand my question. What's really scary is I understand the principle of what you said. Now to move on to the application phase. It's clear what I was trying to accomplice was workable, I just thought it would be in one package, or relay. It will be, when I finish, I just need to find an empty panel box and make it so.

Thanks again.

Rod LaFrance

[Anonymous]

You need a delay on break or single shot timer,12 or 24 volts. I think I have some (of 24V delay on breaks ) somewhere. It works as follows: Power is always on the timer, When the trigger (pushbutton) is made, the device runs a set time and shuts off. Timing starts when the pushbutton is pressed then released. If the button is pushed during the timing cycle the timer is reset. You can also make one with a delay on timer and a DPDT relay. It is also best to add a relay to the timer to protect its contacts as relays are cheaper than timers. It would be best to have a seperate transformer tap,12 or 18 volts AC for relays and timers,but it can be installed in the same fixed voltage circuit as the accessory.
Email me if you are interested,I will look tomarrow. I just returned from York and am pretty tired. Put something in the headline so I know it is not spam. A lot of people have been trying to sell me viagra lately. I need to know your power source,what you are trying to operate and the time range desired. I put several of these on my layout. For example when you push a button my Lionel oil pumps run 4 minutes then shut off. Another button runs the freight shed 2 minutes. Most of my other accessories,such as the MTH firehouse, gas station, and carnival rides are on repeat cycle timers and run periodically by themselves.

Dale Hz