Oguage- O27

[Anonymous]

OK I'm new to O scale ! What is the difference between O guage and O27 ??

[mitchelr]

Basically the difference is in the diameter of the circle of track. O27 is a tighter diameter and is shorter in height that regular 031 tubular track. The ties are typically brown on the modern version of 027, black on 031. To complicate matters you can get 027 height track and 031 in many different radii. There are many different manufacturers of track GarGraves, Lionel, MTH, Atlas and probably some others I am forgetting. Some have more prototypical height and simulated ties/ballast.

I am sure other will come along who can explain this better than I can.

Mitch [%-)]

[BR60103]

O27 is a lighter form of O.
It was originally intended as a cheaper starter version. There are now a lot of variations (as Bob said) and you get O27 track in a 72" diameter and nobody knows what to call it.
O and O27 are perfectly compatible when it comes to running trains on them, but they won't join together comfortably.
There is no such thing as O27 "scale".

[Anonymous]

O Gauge is the distance between the outer Rails.

O27 is the smallest diameter of a Circle of O Gauge Track.

Andrew F.

[phillyreading]

Don't forget that 027 switches may have big time problems with overhang of 18 or 21 inch passenger cars going thru the turn-out section as the solenoid is closer to the track than the O gauge switches. There is one decent thing about 027 track and it will mate up to GarGraves track without needing shims under it.
Lee F.

[FJ and G]

Here's some of the skinny on O gauge:

1. O gauge refers to the width between the rails, which, I'm guessing, is somewhere around 32 mm (don't have my ruler/track with me).

2. A humongous variety of scales and track is emcompassed in O-gauge.

3. Types of track include:

a. 2 rail, such as code 148 (148/1000 of an inch high rails, which I use), code 155, code 125 (which toy flanges won't work with), code 197 and 205 (Old Pullman makes these for G gauge but they work for O gauge too), code 215 and 250 (these too would work for 2-rail O but would unlikely be used by the "scale concious 2-rail O crowd).

BTW, I'm going to be carving up my 3-rail 027 into 2-rail track, which I'll be using in a part of my outdoor layout where I'd like to have real rusty spurs using my R/C equippped toy trains.

b. 3-rail track includes a plethora of track types from the realistic looking Atlas and Gargrave (choice of wood or plastic ties), tubular O, tubular 027, RealTrax, ScaleTrax, Fasttrax etc etc etc. Huge choices of rails too, from steel and stainless steel to nickel-silver and "tin". Curiously, brass appears to be missing from the lineup. 3-rail track usually codes out to 215, such as 027 rails and Atlas, and full O tubular, which I'm guessing is nearly 250.

4. Choice of scales is equally daunting.

a. There's O scale 1:48 which supposedly represents 4' 81/2" real RR track but I think that 1:45 is actually more representative, and purists scratchbuild to this.

b. There's semi-scale which is anything smaller than 1:48 up to almost 1:64 S scale (actually some pre-war stuff seems even smaller than that). There are no hard and fast rules on what constitutes semi-scale.

c. Then, there are the large-scale trains that operate on O-gauge track, very common among the garden RR crowd, esp. in UK.. These represent narrow gauge or industrial railways. For example there's 2 foot gauge trains operating on O gauge track in 1:19 scale and even 18 inch industrial trains operating on something like 1:15 scale on O gauge track. These are almost all scratchbuilt and generally are very very very aesthetic in appearance.

[brianel027]

Seems to me that I have read that the "027" term was borrowed from Ives. At any rate, there was a time long ago when trains were more toys for children than for adults. Lionel used the "027" term not only as a track description, but also as a designation for the more budget orientied part of their train line.

The past 027 train line from Lionel (as well as to some degree the present) tended to be the smaller cheaper trains that were less expensive to make, and therefore priced accordingly. The ill-fated Scout steamers are a good example of Lionel's past marketing of the Lionel 027 line. The Alco FA's and NW2 switchers that ran forward only or had only 2-position e-units are another example. Lionel even cheapened the locos to the extent that some Alco FA's came with a single axle gear drive. Many of the past 027 cars that came with these train sets were short (9 inch length) and simple to produce: plug door box cars with no opening doors, tank cars with molded "details" on a simple sheet metal frame, gondolas lacking metal brake wheels - or later with molded on ones. Road names were vastly limited and shorter cars often came with one or even two non-operating dummy coupler trucks.

Lionel MPC also carried on the cheaper designation of the 027 train line with 2 position e-unit plastic locomotives, and later with DC only powered locos. The shorter 9 inch cars were also carried on but in a broader selection of road names. Lionel MPC continued the cheapening of the trucks with one dummy and one operating coupler, but switched from metal wheel sets on the cars to plastic wheel sets.

Today the train hobby and product lines are far more diversified. Adult modelers today are far far more demanding than train buyers ever were. The fierce competition between the train companies has also contributed to this: the companies have been more than willing to foolishly one up the other's product even if it means tooling investments they can ill-afford and that the market will not bear. K-Line's demise is a perfect example of this.

But today's 027 train line from Lionel (and previously from K-Line) are the best they have ever been. The early nnon-scale Railking sets certainly fall into this category too, and in some respects even lead the category of quality. Most 027 sets come with 3-position e-units, longer 11inch cars with opening doors on box cars and brake wheels on everything. Cars have metal wheels, dual operating couplers and even die cast trucks on some sets.

Though today, the "027" designation has become something of a boogeyman. I've had the owner of one company tell me personally in his office that they wanted to avoid using the 027 designation for fear of alienating the scale adult modelers. Today, the term "traditionally sized" seems to be the current politcally correct phrase for the 027 line of trains. Even the 027 types of train sets now come with FasTrack. In some respects, FasTrack has it's advantages, but it has also allowed Lionel to avoid using the 027 term with their train sets.

The reason I and many other modelers still use 027 track and operate "027" trains is for a couple of reasons: cost consideration, space limitation and detail level. The 027 traditionally sized trains tend (but not always) tend to be less expensive. It is more possible to have greater layout possibilities with 027 track on a smaller table space. And with fewer fine (and sometimes fragile) details, they tend (but not always) to be a little more durable in terms of handling - especially by young children.

Sometimes it is not a matter of production cheapness, as much as it is a level of design thought. For example both Lionel and Industrial Rail (UMD) use/used plastic frames on their box cars. And yet a look at the typical Industrial Rail car puts it eons ahead of the Lionel car. The IR plastic frame is thicker than the Lionel one and unlike the Lionel one, the IR frame snap locks into all sides of the box car shell. Both are cheaper frames, and yet here is a case where a competitor did a far superior job to that of Lionel.

As witnessed by some of the modelers here on this forum, running 027 trains doesn't mean you can't have details or can't have a "realistic" layout - even if it is on a more somewhat subdued level.

[BR60103]

A couple of extra points on FJ&G's list.
Lionel measured the gauge to the middle of the rail. Scale modellers meassure to the inner edge.
1/4" scale and 1 1/4" track gauge make the prototype gauge 60" instead of 56.5"
the fussy modellers adopted two variations to fix this. 17/64" scale on 1 1/4" track. 1/4" scale on 1 3/16" track (scale 57"). The latter was called Q gauge.
In Britain they use 7mm to the foot (1:43) or twice HO scale.

[Anonymous]

Thanks to everyone who responded to this question... I bought the Penn. Flyer set from Lionel.. Then I got a Pennese RS3 off of Ebay. The RS3 runs great on the Fastrack, but is much larger than my freight cars and looks funny pulling them.....