Building a Shelf Layout

[SotaPop]

I remember when I was going through this last year, all I wanted was someone to show me what they have done, just to get ideas.  There are so many ways to do this. 

You can do it quickly and just get shelf brackets from HD and use plywood, which is good because you can go as wide as you want to go if you are into scenery.  This is my all-time favorite ceiling layout, but it wouldn't really work in my house because I can't have a layout 5ft off the ground.  I would constantly be walking into it.

http://users.sisna.com/kevinm2/tom_weaver.htm

You can try to hang everything from the wall, which makes it a little dicey in the corners if you use wide corners.

You can hang the curves in the corners from the ceiling, which is probably my favorite way if you don't want a huge corner piece of shelf.  My ceiling is so low that I don't really have room for scenery anyhow.  You can hang the entire thing from the ceiling. 

There are tradeoffs.  Visibility is compromised if the shelf is solid, but open rails like mine look kinda cheap and weak. 

You can build the locoboose skytrestle, but it's going to take time and money.  You also will need to make a gig to make the curved pieces, and learn to curve wood.  You can make it out of straight peices, but the curves just look better IMHO.  Build one though, and you will probably see why people go with straight.

You also need to find ways to carry wire around the rail so you don't have deadspots.

Wes

I really like that layout link!!!  The combination of the wall brackets and the ceiling rods is how I'm going to have to go.  I have a Standard gauge engine that weighs around 20+ pounds so the shelf is going to have to support some weight.

I measured the engine on the track tonight - it's 6" high.  The highest door molding in the room is 9" down from the ceiling so if I rest a 5/8" piece of wood on the molding it'll give me 2 3/8" of clearance with the ceiling.  This would be the largest/tallest standard gauge engine to run on the shelf.

I'm going to study those photos some more and determine if I can raise that layout design to be 9" below the ceiling.

Once I get the leaves raked and everything packed away for winter, I'm pulling-the-trigger on this layout.  10 years of planning and waiting ends this Fall!

[Wes Whitmore]

I remember when I was going through this last year, all I wanted was someone to show me what they have done, just to get ideas.  There are so many ways to do this. 

You can do it quickly and just get shelf brackets from HD and use plywood, which is good because you can go as wide as you want to go if you are into scenery.  This is my all-time favorite ceiling layout, but it wouldn't really work in my house because I can't have a layout 5ft off the ground.  I would constantly be walking into it.

http://users.sisna.com/kevinm2/tom_weaver.htm

You can try to hang everything from the wall, which makes it a little dicey in the corners if you use wide corners.

You can hang the curves in the corners from the ceiling, which is probably my favorite way if you don't want a huge corner piece of shelf.  My ceiling is so low that I don't really have room for scenery anyhow.  You can hang the entire thing from the ceiling. 

There are tradeoffs.  Visibility is compromised if the shelf is solid, but open rails like mine look kinda cheap and weak. 

You can build the locoboose skytrestle, but it's going to take time and money.  You also will need to make a gig to make the curved pieces, and learn to curve wood.  You can make it out of straight peices, but the curves just look better IMHO.  Build one though, and you will probably see why people go with straight.

You also need to find ways to carry wire around the rail so you don't have deadspots.

Wes

[SotaPop]

I'm not sure about that type of system.  I think it is designed for G scale.  It isn't what I would want. I think this is really what you want...It's the best thing I have seen yet.

http://www.locoboose.com/SkyTrestle/O-Scale.html

Wes

Now that I look at the wire-shelf system ... it does look kind of cheesy.  But I do like the look of the SkyTrestle system!

I suppose a person could build a similar system from scratch.  I still need to make a trip to Home Depot!

Thanks for helping me keep the momentum!

[Wes Whitmore]

I'm not sure about that type of system.  I think it is designed for G scale.  It isn't what I would want. I think this is really what you want...It's the best thing I have seen yet.

http://www.locoboose.com/SkyTrestle/O-Scale.html

Wes

[SotaPop]

Here's an interesting approach ... and may require some thought about how it would perform.  In my case, I'm not looking to do any landscaping ... I just want to run 'em around the track!

Aristo Craft Trains Overhead Transit System

One function of this approach that I really like is the visibility of your trains that it will provide.  I'm guessing you could tie-wrap your track to the system.

I wonder if a person could imitate this system with similar shelving material found at Home Depot?

I'm not sure how noisy it would be though ... yep, I'm not sure on that.  Has anyone out there tried this system?

Check it out.

[Anonymous]

Any chance anyone is willing to email me pictures of their shelf layouts? I am trying to build a simple, around the room one for my kids. Send pictures to [e-mail] Thanks so much

[Wes Whitmore]

Wrong scale, but here is a shelf layout that might give you some ideas:

http://www.geocities.com/oldlahistory/newshelf.html

Wes

[Wes Whitmore]

I would say the outside, since you have to put all the track on the layout.  I think that is how most track makers do it, but I do know that when I measured an MTH 0-31 circle, it was bigger than 31".

I'm working on a shelf design, but not for the ceiling. 

Wes

[SotaPop]

No loops in my design - just track up around the ceiling of my home-office.  It'll basically be a big loop around the perimeter of the ceiling.

When bending gargraves track to make the 0-72 curves ... would you measure the radius to the inside of the track curvature, the outside or in the middle of the track?

[Wes Whitmore]

Yes, the 72" is diameter, so radius would be 36".  It really pulls it off the wall in the corners, doesn't it!  So what are you planning on doing for the loops?

Wes

[SotaPop]

I don't have any pictures yet, but your 7 1/2" shelf is exactly what I'm planning on building.

Quick question - I think I know the answer, but I'll ask anyway.  An O-72 curve would have a 36" radius, right?

[Wes Whitmore]

Does anyone have any pictures of really narrow shelf layouts?  Something with a single track on a 7.5" or less shelf?  I would think that building fronts only would be manditory, but I'm wanting to see some layouts like this to get some ideas.  It makes sense that most of these would be point to point routes, or trollys, but any that have loops on the ends would be great to see too. 

Thanks,
Wes

[J. Daddy]

I don't own a farm to bet on, but I do have constructed layout that works with no worries. a wood brace will definetly work instead of the steel brackets, the triangular force vector back to the wall takes the beam loading variable right out of the question. but remember you will see the triangle brace and it will come down farther on the wall, thus these brackets will have to look good. Also the reason I selected the steel brackets is I wanted to add a lower shelf of trains (maybe for a hidden staging yard). Thus you can trim the wall bracket lengths shorter if you like. And for the finished look to please the wife, velcro a curtain off of the front edge to hide the wires and storage.

[SotaPop]

So the triangular brace is what you feel will really support the shelf in the long run.  Do you feel the brace/bracket has to be steel for the best results ... or would a wooden one work just as good?

My wife wants the layout to have a "finished" look too ... so that is the other caveat to my design.

[J. Daddy]

I would be very careful with this design. note that the E value of would changes over time vrs. steel. E is the modular of Elasticity which is important in a beam load equation. As the force progress towards the edge every 2 inches yields 8 fold deflection. limiting you to very narrow shelves.

Also note that the 'I' value of this design is 1/12 b* h cubed. h is critical, which is the thickness of the board. If you can increase this locally, your weight that you can hold is exponential.

This is why I selected the steel bracket support system. It avoids the free standing beam weakness by adding a force vector back to the wall, I can support a ZW 23 inches from the  wall with no beam deflection! and no view blockage and no legs.

Sorry to be a geek... but I figured a little applied math will give you some assurance the trains will not hit the floor.... 

[Wes Whitmore]

What I would probably do for the straights is buy 3/4" baltic birch for the straights (or some other rigid material) and use a dado blade to make a tight fit, and glue it in with poly construction adhesive.  That joint would stay put forever.  Then I would add .5" of the softest poly foam you could to deaden the sound a bit.  You could just round over the edge and stain it, and call it the day.  BB is hard to find, but it's great stuff.

 

Of course if you do this though, you might as well make it all out of BB and not buy the metal brackets in the first place.
Wes

[Buckeye Riveter]

I purchased that some one for testing.  It seemed strong enough.  It was expensive after I calculated how many I was going to need, though.  It also uses a 5/8" wide board to work perfectly.  I think that must be a normal thickness of those premade partical board shelves.
Wes

Wes, I agree that this type of system is strong enough.  I would suggest you also look at how much the shelf would deflect downward especially over a period of time.  The anchor strip will create a twisting motion that needs to be resisted by the wall.  If the wall material over time could compress slightly, a deflection downward of the shelf would be the result.  Of course if the wall is CMU, it is not going to move.

[SotaPop]

If I can find a generic "U" shaped aluminum channel material, I will look to see how that looks and then go with a generic type partical board shelf.  Hopefully this way I will avoid some of the cost of the expensive designer shelving.

I agree - 5/8" board should work perfectly and it should be able to support a 20 pound standard gauge engine.  In the back of my mind I'm trying to think of a way to put down some built right material as a sound insulator.  This will thicken the shelf and may require a flexible trim piece for the shelf edge.

It's time for a road trip to Home Depot!

[Wes Whitmore]

I purchased that some one for testing.  It seemed strong enough.  It was expensive after I calculated how many I was going to need, though.  It also uses a 5/8" wide board to work perfectly.  I think that must be a normal thickness of those premade partical board shelves.
Wes

[SotaPop]

I haven't been to Home Depot yet to actually look at their shelving, but I'm leaning towards a shelving system something like this: 

Then every few feet, I'd run a support-rod up through the outer edge of the shelf and up into the ceiling using a toggle bolt.  I suppose a similar "U" shaped aluminum channel could be used instead of the fancy one shown above.

A con to this approach is that you won't be able to see the trains as well, but in the event of a derailment ... something would be there under the track to hopefully save an engine from nose-diving to the ground below.

A wood shelf will also provide some options for hiding wires too.

Any thoughts on this approach?  Pros ... Cons?

[Wes Whitmore]

I made some big progress on prepping the new room yesterday.  It's almost time to start doing some benchwork.  I'm also designing a shelf layout, so why start another thread...

I edited this post as I answer my own questions:

Where is a good source of building fronts?  Here's one! 

http://www.elfinmodels.com

 

So I'm trying to figure out the shelf width.  It looks like the boxed version of these buildings is 3.5".  A little deeper than I wanted to give up.  Not too bad though.  So for a rough estimate:

3.5" for the building

3.5" for the sidewalk and street

4" for the track with bed

1" to the edge

---------

12" for a single track and probably 16" for a double track.  These are all rough estimates.  Can someone correct me?

Thanks,

Wes

[Wes Whitmore]

Frank53,

Do you happen to have any links of layouts similar to your's with the "building fronts" and narrow shelving, probably with turnarounds on each end?  I didn't even know people did that until I began reading your posts.  I haven't seen many since.  

Thanks!
Wes

[Blueberryhill RR]

Yep, me too.

[laz 57]

YEP me too.

laz57

[Jumijo]

does anyone else see two exact copies of this thread on the main page - one following the other?

I do.

I do too.

I do too.

Stereophonic, man.

[SotaPop]

does anyone else see two exact copies of this thread on the main page - one following the other?

I'm seeing 2 too! ... not sure how that happened.

[Buckeye Riveter]

does anyone else see two exact copies of this thread on the main page - one following the other?

I do.

[Anonymous]

DOUBLE YOUR PLEASURE, DOUBLE YOUR FUN. also 2 of the same replys

[Wes Whitmore]

Yup, I have two.

Wes