Getting Ready to Wire.Some help Please

[Anonymous]

I am doing my wiring now, and I have decided to go with 12 gauge bus wiresand 16 gauge feeders going up to the track, accessories, lights, etc. I will be using 2 modern ZW's and 1 older KW, for a total of 10 tranformer outputs. Although a transformer return (ground wire) will be run individually for each outgoing hot wire, the ground terminals on the transformers will all be connected (with the transformers phased properly, of course). I want to be able to use the voltmeter attachments for the ZW's, and they read amps at the ground return, not at the outgoing hot terminal. So, the returns will be individual until they pass through the amp meter lugs, then they will be common. Color coding the wire is hard because I've only found about 9 or 10 colors, and the ground return wires will all be black, so that takes out one of those colors. The outgoing hot wires and their respective ground returns will be wire tied together so that I can identify the wires making up each pair. I am using snap together wire connectors, called tap-splices to connect the 12 gauge bus to each 16 gauge feeder. I thought about using terminal strips, etc, but there's no way. I'd be here wiring for the next ten years... The tap splices are quick and electrically sound. I did find some tap-splices that are actually made to connect 10-12 gauge wires to 16-18 gauge wires. They were a gift from Heaven because using the 10-12 gauge tap splices was not working well to connect the 16 and the 12 gauge wires together. Wire nuts are not as sound since they can loosen and particular they can loosen as wires are moved or bumped during other phases of wiring. But, I have a bunch of Ross switches with DZ-2500 switch motors, and the wires on them are short and thin. I did use wire nuts to go from the DZ-2500 machine wires to the 16 gauge feeders. They're not ideal or perfect, but so far they are intact and electrically fine. I am using stranded and would have given up completely by now if I was using either solid wire (to hard to work with) or if I had used that wire that OGR sells which has inner insulation for each stand AND an outer layer of insulation over the whole bundle. Too much trouble.

One note that does not get mentioned here often enough: Small gauge wire is ONLY OK for short runs. 20, 22, or 24 gauge wire in "O" gauge trains is probably a big fire risk if it is run for anything more than a few inches, if even that long. A high cureent load (a building with several light bulbs) being drawn through 22 or 24 gauge wire is going to be a problem unless it is a really short length of that wire. Better to run 16 gauge feeders to right where the building spring lugs are, and then maybe solder on the wires, or use a very tiny piece of smaller gauge wire to connect to the building. Likewise, telephone wires and CAT 5 wires are too thin for the current draw of our train layouts and will be a big fire risk. Ironically, people use that stuff for the items with the higher current load (buildings with light bulbs) and stuff like that, even motorized accessories, and then they use the higher grade wire on the track which might not even see the same levels of current draw as those building and layout lights.

[Anonymous]

If you have wired your layout with a Bus system and done a quality job, modifying it for DCS is not all that difficult. I have since removed and sold my DCS system but I initially installed it on my Bus-wired layout and experienced few problems achieving strong signals. [I utilized a lot of advice from Dave Kline and Barry Broskowitz on the DCS Forum in my effort].

In wiring for a traditional Bus system I used what I call a "Hub and Spoke" system. I installed 12-position terminal strips["Hubs"] at four strategic locations on the layout. A fifth strip is located beneath the control panel at the transformers & TPCs and from there my #12 Bus conductors run to the nearest layout T-strip and on to the next 12-position strip and next,etc. [My panel amp and volt meters and PowerGard spike arrestors are also wired to this control panel T-strip]. You can get "plate jumpers" for terminal strips that enable you to section them for the different power districts and the Common if you wish.

From the four layout 12- position T-strips I run #16 ["Spokes"--hot and common together] the short distances to two or 4-position T-strips berneath the track and from these I run #16 risers up for soldering to the rails. All of my T-strip connections are made to the screws with soldered spade lugs. I use GarGraves track and solder to every 37" length of rail and in between all of the Ross/Curtis turnouts.

I initially installed the "Hub & Spoke" wiring for TMCC and Conventional operation and when I installed DCS I disconnected the Bus runs between the 12-position strips and "home run" wired directly from the respective TIU channels at the control panel to each of the the T-strips. I also rearranged a very few of the distribution "spokes" in order to better define the separate power districts. [I have four districts, one being the yard]. When I removed the DCS system I simply disconnected the "home runs" and reconnected the original Bus wiring.

As many will explain there is more than one way to "skin a cat" in layout wiring. Many folks sucessfully adapted DCS to their Bus-wired layout with no changes at all.

[Anonymous]

Here is place that pictures,prices for spools of wire

http://www.autoelectrical.com/wire.shtml

[Anonymous]

I just thought of something else. Another thing you can do with color coded wire is label them. They sell wire numbermarkers you wrap around the wire in several places and then write down were that wire goes and controls. It will make life easier in the long run.
Also to route all the wires under the table and instead of using a staple gun or drilling holes in support beams I used zip ties, wire ties that have a hole to mount the make a big loop and run the wires through them. The only down fall is using enough to wires don't sag to much.

[Sturgeon-Phish]

I bought 100' spools of green yellow red and black, ran a short piece of conduit through the center hole in the spools just protruding the end of the out side spools and the took a coathanger and bent it into " U " with smaller eyes on the tag ends then hung the rig on nails driven in the end of the table underside. While under the table just pull the wire(s) you need and snip. No tangles, mess or looking around for where you left the spool.
Also, lable the lines as you go, every so often so there is NO guess work as to what is what. I used white cloth electrical tape as the ink won't smear. Keep runs straight and neat. Staple up out of the way with a wire nose on your T-50.
Keep with a color code, (yellow light/accesory, black base, red/green actions accessory) and stick to it, even if you run out of a color and you need to run to Lowes for more. [:D]

[Anonymous]

msacco,

I just did this on a 10 x 10 L-shaped layout with Lionel O gauge tubular. I could have definately used more juice in my soldering iron (40 watts) cause it took a while to heat the track and wire (16 gauge) up to flow solder but it worked. Just pry the rails apart enough to get the wire between them from underneath. Tin the wire first and you should be in good shape. I used 16 gauge for all the feeders and the commons. Used terminal strips to keep things neat (and I still could have done better than I did .... lots of wires when you start figuring in switches, blocks, accessories, control panel, etc..). The only problem I ran into was with the operating accesories and the spring steel connectors underneath, the 16 gauge wire is too big and I had to splice in some 18-22 to get a good, easily removable connection.

Lot's of good advice here on this forum helped me get up an running. Good luck.

[lionelsoni]

Do not select wire size according to how many trains you plan to run or according to the dimensions of the layout. Select the wire big enough so that it will not melt and catch fire when there is a fault. This means using wire big enough to carry current at the level of the overcurrent protection. This is usually the rating of the circuit breaker in the transformer, or of any lower-current circuit breaker or fuse that you install between the transformer and the track. Here are reasonable wire sizes for different currents:

AWG12---20 amperes
AWG14---15 amperes (Z, ZW)
AWG16---10 amperes
AWG18---7 amperes

AWG12 and 14 is readily available and cheap because it is used for house wiring. The cheapest is non-metallic sheathed cable, which is solid. Solid or stranded is strictly a matter of preference for installation. It has nothing to do with electrical matters.

I like thermostat cable for controls, like switches. It is cheap and available in 10 or more conductors.

[Anonymous]

This is a great thread for people that want to plan ahead on wiring a new or adding dcs or Tmcc to a layout. THe above thread mentioned by jefelectric does not mention what preparation is needed to prepare one if he is interested in putting in tmcc or dcs. I for one would like to know.

[msacco]

Thanks Jefelectric,
But I think I'm ready for TMCc anyway. I have the powermasters built into the new zw and I already have a command base and Cab 1. It's only one wire to connect isn't it?

Mike S.

[jefelectric]

Even though you are wiring for conventional now, it is wise to plan ahead and wire for TMCC now as you may decide to switch later. DCS is a whole other story, I didn't plan for that and when I install it, I may have problems.

[luther_stanton]

I use 12 gauge bus wires and 14 gauge feeders on Atlas nickel track. I solder the feeders directly to the rail joiners. I use 18 or 20 gauge for signals, lights and accessories.

I have been hitting Home Depot / Lowes for the bigger wire and Radio Shack for the smaller stuff. I have trended toward stranded simply because it bends easier / less prone to breaking. Just this evening I bought some three conductor alarm wire from Lowes for wiring the switches (they have this in bulk so you specify how many feet). It seems the smaller wire is typically solid – stranded in the smaller gauges is harder to come by.

Just recently I purchased a 5 pack of electrical tape – all different colors. I can use different combination “bands” at each end of the wire to help make a limited color selection of wire a little more useful.

For soldering I always like to "tin" the wire first - get a good layer of solder on the wire before attaching it to anything - this helps to make a better connection. I use either a 40 watt iron for small stuff or a dual heat gun for heavier (like the bus wires, etc.) work. Radio Shack carries both. I found the gun heats up much more quickly and is much better suited for soldering to the track. I probably went overkill but my all my main line runs are soldered. Not one tie was melted with the gun.

I also stay away from crimping, wire nuts, etc. Some people have a good experience with them; however it is simply a mechanical connection. I think you get better conductivity - especially over time - with a soldered connection. I connect all my feeders to the bus via spade or ring terminals using either bolts or terminal strips - I use the crimping type connectors, removing the plastic sleeves and soldering instead.

- Luther

[msacco]

Thanks guys.
I'm sorry i didn't mention it, but I'm wiring for conventional using rotary switches for block control. My layout is L shaped on two 4x8s.

And i"m using O tublular as well.

thanks,

mike s.

[Anonymous]

My preference and use over the years has been stranded copper wire. I use #12 for the bus [both the Common and Hot conductors] and #16 for the "risers" or "drops" from soldered track connections down to the Bus. I use #18 for my Tortoise turnout motors [switch machines]but #24 is more than adequate. For most all accessories/lighting I use #24.

Automotive/Industrial Fastener distributors carry 9-10 different colors of all wire sizes ranging from #24 to #10 gauge machine and appliance wire in 100' rolls[we have two such places in Greensboro that sell over the counter]. You can also buy from Grabar, GE Supply and others but they usually sell 500' rolls.
Home Depot and Lowe's sell #12 and #14 stranded copper in four colors and in 100' rolls[ it is slightly less flexible than Appliance or automotive "hook-up wire but works okay].

You can buy most colors in the sizes noted above at NAPA ,etc,usually in smaller rolls and more expensive. There are also a number of catalog suppliers such as Newark Electronics, Mouser, All Electric, that have various stocks listed.

Buy a good dual range soldering iron such as Weller's high capacity 135 watt gun type--it will provide more than enough heat for rail and other heavy duty soldering. You will need rosin core electrical solder and it is helpful to have a small tube of rosin flux on hand. The rail surface to be soldered[sanded] and the iron's tip[wet cloth] must both be clean and "tinned" with solder.
["tinning is simply heating the end of the wire and the rail flange and applying solder to them. Then you place the two tinned components together, hold with a small screwdriver blade,apply heat and as they will "meld" into one another remove the heat and hold with the screwdriver for a few more seconds]

You tin the tip, tin the end of the stripped wire to be soldered and you tin the rail flange that you will solder to. You will be heating the components to be soldered, not the solder itself---if you apply heat to the solder instead of to the wire and rail flange you will get a "cold" joint that will fail.

As Todd suggested above,it is best to practice on some junk rail or the like till you get the hang. My own preference for rail flange soldering is to strip about 3/8" of the riser wire, fan the stripped strands out into a fan shape, then tin the fan, tin the rail flange and hold the fan on the flange. You can also just lay the stripped wire horizontally along the flange and solder it--I used to do it that way.

I use White code for the Common Return conductor and Red, Black, etc, for Hot feeders from the transformer to the center rail(s) of the separate power districts[separate tracks or ovals]. Contrary to our frequent useage of the term, there is no "ground" on an O-gauge 3-rail systen only a Common return from the load[engine,etc] back to the transformer---this return completes the " electrical circuit" (I use White code because the Common return is analogous to the White household Neutral return from load to service entrance panel---just my preference).

[wrmcclellan]

Mike,

Feeder size will vary depending on the size of your layout. As Todd suggests, 16 Ga is a good starting point if your layout is around 8 x 12 size. If your layout is larger, you may wi***o consider 14 ga for the underlayout feeds. Use one foot 16 or 18 ga for wire drops from the track to the 14 ga feeders below. Hint, if you do not like soldering underneath, use wire nuts to attach the 16/18 ga drops to the underneath 14 ga. Stranded or solid does not matter. Stranded is easier to work with.

You did not state whether you are using TMCC and/or DCS. DCS requires you to run hot and common feeds as paired wires for best performance.

For switch wire, go to Home Depot and buy the 4 conductor 18 or 22 ga telephone or alarm wire. You can buy whatever length you need.

Get a Weller or equivalent dual heat soldering gun, where 250-300 watts is the upper rating for best overall performance for soldering to the track. A 150 watt gun will also work, but will take longer to heat the rail for proper solder flow. Pick up some 0.50" solder with flux (Home Depot or Radio Shack).

To solder, first make sure the rail is very clean. Use some scotchbrite or a small file if necessary to remove any corrosion. Heat the rail with the gun, and then apply the solder right where the gun and the rail touch. When the solder flows and forms a clean shiny fillet, you are done and can remove the rail. If the solder looks dull or very crazed, you will need to redo it as you have a "cold" solder joint. Practice on some scrap track to get the feel. Track with molded ballast of plastic ties can have the plastic deform/melt if you are not careful.

Good luck!
Roy

[Anonymous]

Home Depot sells all kinds of wire. Lots of sizes, colors, and types. I used 14 gauge stranded for all the track wiring. I used 3 way telephone wire for the switches. It is solid with red, green and white separate wires within the cable. Stronger wire helps prevent voltage loss. Use jumpers. When soldering, make sure the surface is clean and the connection is strong.

[Anonymous]

Hello,
I will try to help you as best I can.
I used a bare 16 gage solid copper wire for a common ground, I tied all the "U" terminals together on the transformers and then ran it under the table all across the layout in 1 continuous piece. I am only using TMCC so this works for that and grounding other things switches,lights ,etc Used stranded for power see below

I used 16 gage for everything come to think of it less voltage drop on long runs my layout was 10 x 24. I did work at a electric place so I did not pay retail, but Electrical supply can get or have any size or color wire available,since many things in that field are color coded.

As for soldering I have a iron because it stay hot along as it's plugged compared to a gun which as a trigger. I don't what size it is I think it is 1500 watts.
Which track are you using? Soldering to gargraves is easy but depends on the track. super o it is not so easy.

Switch wire, I have used 3 conductor phone wire and it worked fine with Postwar super o switcher.

The best thin for soldering is try it on junk/scrap pieces to get the hang of as you can ruin things with the heat.

Hopes this helps,
Todd

[msacco]

Just about there as I finish off my control panel. I plan to start this week.
Not sure what i need as far as supplies.
Specifically...
1) what is the right wire for Bus and for feeders? Stranded or solid and what gauge. Best place to get wire in different colors too.

2) HOw about Switch wire. Should I buy a large reel of 3 wire stuff I see at train shows or is there something else? Same for the coupler sections?

3) I plant to solder feeders to the track. Iron or gun and what rating is best.

4) How do you solder to the track anyway. Someone showed me a few years ago, but I didn't take notes. Should have though.

thanks in advance,
Mike S.