Lionel smoke units

[Anonymous]

I have 3 Lionel TMCC diesels. a lion master conrail SD80, a Lionel Lines SD90, and a B & O alco switcher. The one thing they all have in common is I have had issues with all their smoke units. On the SD80 & SD90 I burned the wicks. On the Alco the unit leaked. I repaired the SD80 & 90 and had the Alco repaired through Warrens Trains in Fairview, Ohio. I have not really used any of these engines enough to cause these kind of problems. All of their smoke units work now but I no longer use any of their smoke units because I don't trust them. Has anyone else out there experenced these kind of problems?

Scott R. Conforto
Brookpark, Ohio

[dougdagrump]

The biggest problem most operators experience is the inadequate smoke output in general. If in the running of the of the units the aux1 & 9 were used as a boost and held to long it will turn the wicks into toast. Also there were a lot of the units issued with the smoke unit fans wired backwards.

[ChiefEagles]

If you know how to really fix them, they really smoke. If you feed them right after fixing them, they last real good. Reverse fan rotation has been a problem with some units [fan is suppose to rotate clockwise, curve of the impeller vanes will fool you]. Take that sleeve off of the element. Use some pink insulation [yes, just like that in the house]. When you put the top back on, be sure the element is touching the insulation. Be sure the air passages are not blocked by the insulation. Soak it good with fluid. I use a mixture of JT's and 1/8 Lionel. Stay off that #9 on the CAB1 or you will burn it again. If it does get burned [the wicking], grab some more pink insulation and replace it. Hope this helps. My TMCC [2 full size SD80's, SD60, GP60, Dash 9 and a Dash 8 I put a smoke unit in] engines will run you out of the room.

[Anonymous]

I've got a question about the vane curve and direction of the fan. I looked at my J3A Hudson and the vanes curve so that when the fan runs counter clockwise it does scoop the air, if it was to run clockwise then it wouldn't scoop the air, Is my fan not running the way it should be? It does smoke pretty good. I took it apart and soaked the white whick material with JT's and it works ok but if it could do even more I'd like to know.

George

[ChiefEagles]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChiefEagles

Reverse fan rotation has been a problem with some units [fan is suppose to rotate clockwise, curve of the impeller vanes will fool you].

Vanes don't scoop the air, they push it and counter clockwise is reverse. If you are familiar with an outboard motor's waterpump or other impeller driven pumps, the vanes curve back from the rotation. If your impeller is truning in reverse, you need to swap the black and red wires.

[Anonymous]

I noticed my MTH Railking runs clockwise and all is good, I did switch the wiring on my Lionel Hudson and now it works great. Why does Lionel send theirs out running backwards?

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChiefEagles

Use some pink insulation [yes, just like that in the house]. When you put the top back on, be sure the element is touching the insulation. Be sure the air passages are not blocked by the insulation. Soak it good with fluid.

Adding to Chief's great advice, soak the insulation before you put the hood back on, if possible. It gives you an idea of just how many drops of fluid it really takes before an overflow. (Trying to put the hood back on without dumping the fluid on your pants is the title of the Chief's next chapter in train repair. [:D])

Also, there are some smoke units that will not give off quantities of smoke, just because they won't. The Polar Express Engine is one of the first that comes to mind. The engine runs at voltages that seem to be too low to heat up the element. In other words, the drive mechanisms are very efficient and do not require much juice! The remedy is to put about 20 cars full of coal behind the engine to increase the voltage requirements or install a rectifier. (Chief, please comment here, because I always thought a rectifier was something you sat on.)

Chief, I'm surprised you didn't tell them about *** Teal's wonderful book on train repair. He discusses the fan rotation problem in his book. Fan rotation was also the subject of an article by *** in CTT this last year (?).

[Jumijo]

*** Teal's book is well worth mentioning. His smoke unit fix alone is worth the price of the book, and thousands of people with underachieving smokers owe him a debt of gratitude for his fix.

Jim Barret has a new video "In the Backshop Volume 11, available now that shows how to fix the Lionel smoke units as well. The ad for that video is on page 132 of Run 213 of OGR. $19.95 + $7 for shipping.

[ChiefEagles]

***'s book is outstanding. [Buckeye, I've preached so much about his book, I didn't want folks to think I was getting a cut [;)]]. The video [I've got it too] is good. They do not tell you to remove the sleeeve from the element. Buckeye found that "trick" out. You can build a bridge rectifier [from Lionelsoni, Bob Nelson] between the motor and the reversing unit [not the pickups as you will reduce the voltage to the smoke unit]. This will reduce the engine's start voltage but raise the smoke unit voltage. Thus you will be running the PE at a higher voltage but the actual motor will be turning slower and not flying around the track. Bridge rectifiers can be purchased at Radio Shack. If you are interested, I can go into that detail on later post.

Yes Buckeye, probably so as I listen to NPR too.

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChiefEagles

***'s book is outstanding. [Buckeye, I've preached so much about his book, I didn't want folks to think I was getting a cut [;)]].

You're not getting a cut? [:0][:0][:0] I thought my check was in the mail. Maybe, I'm in the same boat as you. [:)][:)]

On the same note, my Lionel Burning Switch Tower operating at 18volts just pours out the smoke. So why can't a Lionel TMCC engine pour out the same amount of smoke [?][?][?]

[ChiefEagles]

Yes, the smoke unit in the dummy I fixed is Lionel. At 18V driectly from pickups, it will run you out of the house. Even witht he bridge rectifiers in line with the pickups [reducing the voltage], it still smokes good. In TMCC, the voltage to the smoke unit runs through one of the boards [radio, I think] and it must be reducing the voltage.

[Buckeye Riveter]

Chief, I just repacked my Mikado with the pink. Now we really have smoke. I think one thing you must do with all the units is not let them run dry with the smoke unit on. If it is just setting on a siding, you need to turn the smoke off with ALT 8 keys on TMCC.

[Jumijo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

Chief, I just repacked my Mikado with the pink. Now we really have smoke. I think one thing you must do with all the units is not let them run dry with the smoke unit on. If it is just setting on a siding, you need to turn the smoke off with ALT 8 keys on TMCC.

Buckeye, I have a Polar Express. How much pink insulation is needed. Also, does it matter if it's compacted, or should it be "airy", if you know what I mean?

Do you remove the cloth sheathing from the heater element?

Jim

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jaabat

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

Chief, I just repacked my Mikado with the pink. Now we really have smoke. I think one thing you must do with all the units is not let them run dry with the smoke unit on. If it is just setting on a siding, you need to turn the smoke off with ALT 8 keys on TMCC.

Buckeye, I have a Polar Express. How much pink insulation is needed. Also, does it matter if it's compacted, or should it be "airy", if you know what I mean?

Do you remove the cloth sheathing from the heater element?

Jim

Not much insulation is needed. Remove the old and put about the same amount back in. The insulation you take out is really compacted and usually burnt. I tap mine in with a small screw driver.

I removed my sheathing. I don't know if it helped or not.

[Anonymous]

I got a polar express for christmas. I get better smoke output after I changed the heating element. I had 2 liquid smoke conversions for postwar lionel - ones in my 675 and the other never made it to my 2035 - its out of commision till I get around to fixing it. The element itself is alot different and it seems to not require as much juice to heat it up. At any rate, it helped quite a bit just by doing that - I'd say doubled its output. My 675 still pumps more out but I'm happy with the PE now.

[Anonymous]

I posted a subject on the 17th of January. I want to say thank you to the quick responces I really do appreaciate it

Thanx

Scott R. Conforto

[Jumijo]

My Polar Express smoked fine until recently. Now it's so-so. Still smokes, but it used to blast out big smoke rings and throw smoke out the sides. I'll try a long consist this weekend and see if it just needs more juice. I've been running it more conservatively now that it's on a table. When it was on the floor, I liked to open her up and run her fast. If no better, I'll "Buckeye" it with some new insulation.

Thanks for the help.

Jim

[Buckeye Riveter]

Tonight I took my Lionel Hudson apart to see if I could increase the smoke output. To my surprise, I found the resistor basically blocking the air holes that pu***he smoke out of the stack. I repacked it with pink and I would guess the smoke output has increased at 5 times.

On this particular unit, Lionel used a plastic top over the smoke unit. DUMB! Therefore I did not remove the wicking material surrounding the resistor, but did scrape the burned material with a knife.

[ChiefEagles]

Catch Buckeye and I on NPR tomorrow morning. [Click and Clack [;)][:D]] Get rid of those sleves. Just let the element touch the pink.

[Anonymous]

My son received a NY Central Flyer for Christmas. I tried taking it apart to modify like you suggested. The smoke unit looks to be all one piece. It appears to have a plastic smoke stack that doesn't come off. Didn't see a fan or the wicking. Is this engine not capable of having this done?

[1688torpedo]

Hello SoonerD! The Smoke Unit you're talking about is self contained & cannot be taken apart at all or modified.Take Care.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info.

[prewardude]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1688torpedo

Hello SoonerD! The Smoke Unit you're talking about is self contained & cannot be taken apart at all or modified.Take Care.

Keth is correct on this, BUT, while these smoke units aren't designed to be taken apart and serviced, I wonder if it couldn't be done by someone with experience in these matters. I have an engine with one of these units that ain't smoking much anymore. Maybe I'll try a little experimenting...

Regards,
Clint

[Anonymous]

Let me know if you have any luck.