O vs. G for outside, 6 year old boy's first train

[Anonymous]

Hi - I posted for the first time about a week ago and got some great guidance toward a starter set for my son's 6th BD (O size) but have since scoped out the space available in our home and I am struggling (well, my wife, really) with finding space for it. I have spent each evening diving through this forum for ideas, and am now considering an outdoor set as an option. (I live in the San Diego area, so weather is pretty cooperative). Should I be focusing on G sets? Brass or stainless track? A starter set, or build a set from scratch? (I figure I can afford about 40-50 feet of track to start). Will a starter power supply run that much track? Any input and additional guidance is appreciated. Even the research has been a blast!


Thanks,
Matt

[Anonymous]

Well, permit me to reduce it down to the basics:

Most Large Scale trains (and track, etc.) are purposefully designed for outdoor operation--sealed motor blocks, UV-resistant materials, etc.

Most O gauge trains are NOT purposefully designed for outdoor operation.

Take your choice!

I'm actively involved in both gauges/scales (plus a few others). I will never use my O gauge trains outdoors. Not that it can't be done; just that it's not something I would ever choose to do for a variety of reasons. My next garden railroad will be Large Scale, as have the others I've built in the past.

[thor]

I asked the same question about a week ago and since then I've been researching some of the bewildering options available, suggested by the various replies, and asking variations of that question and what I've learned so far suggests that the problem lies with how you do it, rather than what you use to do it with.

The problem lies with the fact that the mechanisms, engines, motors, switches, aren't made to stand outside conditions ie weather. So if you laid a big run of plain track, say a large loop, provided you used something like a plain plastic tied nickel silver or stainless track, that should stand up to the weather fairly well though track cleaning is always a problem no matter what you use.

If you laid switches and either took great care to cover them up after a session, or had an arrangement whereby your yard could be removed for inside storage after each session, you'd probably be okay too but if you left a locomotive out it wouldnt take long before the problems start.

With any gauge G or O the problems lie with the dirt that just drops onto the track and the oxidation that combine to reduce electrical pickup from the track, that plus the power requirements needed for a larger run - voltage drop etc.

However in England I know of a couple of HO outside railways and they get away with it by putting covers over the track switches and arranging the trackwork so that its properly drained with real ballast and the roadbed laid such that water can't pool (much of it on plywood shelving up in the air) and one guy keeps his engines in a proper engine shed outside and they seem to handle it.

However as the other chap pointed out, the BIG advantage of G - specifically LGB - is that it was designed for outside use from the get go. Its much more rugged and able to withstand a certain amount of benign neglect such as "Oh dear its raining and ooops I left the trains outside!"

Unless you have a billiard table smooth lawn or yard, you'll have to build some kind of a platform to lay your track on and it'll have to be a fairly permanent permanent way. You'll need to have lots of electrical feeders and pay attention to the potential problems at rail gaps from expansion and contraction and if you do a really good job then there's no reason why you can't run your O gauge stuff because thats what I'm going to do, too.

I'm toying with the idea of making a shelf around the garden with a roof over it, kind of like those anti-avalanche sheds and laying plain track just to get a nice long run and making a 4 x 8 yard that gets put away after each session along with the controllers and rolling stock.. I'm hoping to use one of those high frequency units that burn off rail dirt and oxides - used to have one back in the 70's, hope they're still around - and right now the track that looks the most rugged is either Atlas or MTHs that has the built in roadbed.

Sorry about the length of the reply. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

I took the cheap/simple approach last year and got a battery powered G set with handheld remote from KB Toys for $39. My 1 year-old Grandson spent many happy hours operating it, and this Spring I will expand the plastic track. If we really get serious about outdoor G, I'll look into more "adult looking" trains, but for now, this is fine. Joe

[FJ and G]

First off, if your yard is fairly big, I'd go with G scale as the trains are somewhat more durable for outside; although a fair number of garden railroaders say that it is a myth that they are indestructible. In other words, you wouldn't want to operate even G in rain or wet snow and you wouldn't want to leave them in the sun every day b/c even they can fade.

Now, as far as covering the track if you're using O scale, I don't really think it necessary as long as your ties are UV proof, such as offered by Gargraves and Atlas plastic ties; and so long as you are using GG stainless steel or Atlas n/s rail.

I'd go with manual turnouts unless you have a way to waterproof them in O scale. In G, I believe LGB makes waterproof remote turnouts.

Thor, I'd be interested in the progress you are doing.

A couple more points. You can get twice the train in O for the garden as G but of course it's twice as hard to see. :-)

So many who use O (or smaller); choose to raise their roadbeds.

Now the real real real fun outdoors, comes when you go live steam; O or G.

One other point; if you go G, I'd recommend considering remote control. That would solve the rail cleaning problem. Even O can be rigged for remote.

[FJ and G]

Oh, one more good point for G.

Starter sets in G are about same price as for O and G scale track is actually CHEAPER than some O scale track like Atlas.

Also, locomotives and rolling stock are similarly priced.

Also, G scale Phoenix sound system is said to be tops.

If I had a kid, i'd go G scale (I'm using O outdoors).

[dougdagrump]

Hi Matt,
I have a couple of ideas that you mite want to kick around before you make a decision. You could always do a shelf type layout around your son's room close enough to the ceiling to be out of the way and still have sufficient space to use building facades for scenery. My second idea, if his room is big enough, is to buy a bunk bed where the lower bunk is a full size bed and put the layout on it and he uses the upper bunk, twin size, for his bed. I've never seen this done before but to me it kinda beats the roll-out layouts that go under the bed.
I also live in the San Diego area and run at the "Toy Train Gallery" at the S. D. Model RR Museum. I'm generally there on fridays probably this monday as well, last check we were short on volunteers, stop by for a visit some time.

[pbjwilson]

Matt,
Here's my 6 yr. old.



We use fancy birdhouses for buildings, rocks and various grasses and flowers for landscaping. It's alot of fun. I'd go G if you don't have room inside for a layout.

[Anonymous]

If you want to go outdoors go with G gauge for all the reasons mentioned above plus (lets face it) the 2 rail track will look more realistic than the 3 rail no matter how dark the center rail is. However, go with a solid track for outdoors (LGB or Aristo, not lionel) as it will hold up better. Another advantage to G gauge is most hobby shops carry track joiners that attach to the track to keep the connection solid despite being out in the elements. Even if you have great weather, wind, rain, and the like will cause the ground and your roadbed to shift. Finally, while the track is only a fraction bigger in width, the scale for most G gauge is twice that of O gauge and, hence, the pieces are bigger and, in general, able to handle small obsticles better. Finally, in many ways, G gauge is cheaper. All in all, I think G is the best choice for outdoors.

However, before giving up on O, there are many ways to get an O gauge/scale layout in a small space including fold down layouts, around the room track, and underbed layouts. The idea above of bunk beds sounds like a great one. There is also a website, www.thortrains.net, that has plans for several nice small pikes that can be built, leaned against a wall when not in use, and quickly set-up when the mood strikes. Again, unlike HO or anything smaller, inside the house, O gauge can take a fair amount of rough handling and still work fine.

Hope this helps.