What Set Would Grow the Train Hobby?

[Jumijo]

Advertising and a good marketing strategy are the keys. What little advertising Lionel does currently is aimed at people already in the hobby. They have to advertise in a broad enough medium for millions of potential buyers not yey in the hooby to see it. Television, while expensive, would most likely garner the greatest results. It also shows the product in motion, with smoke and lights, and accessories all working. Kids would be enthralled with the visuals, and parents would need to be the focus of the verbage. Print advertising would also need to be utilized, but again, publications with a large customer base.

As for marketing strategy, Lionel needs only to look back at how it marketed trains 50 years ago and emulate that. They need to play up the nostalgia angle as well as the wholesome, family-oriented aspects. Also, placement in popular movies and tv shows would go a long way.

The fact that they aren't advertising at all is worrisome. Are things that lean at Lionel?

Jim

[otftch]

I think the "Polar Express" set has done a good job.
Ed

[artyoung]

Public Christmas displays ALWAYS draw kids, and they still entice those kids to race around the layout following the trains. Low-end sets also have their appeal (look at the MTH & Lionel Docksiders). BUT : most of the parents are still unaware that Lionel (and other manufacturers) are still in business. Just one print ad in a "Parade" magazine on Sunday, or "Good Housekeeping" in one of those Holiday Recipe issues would reach more people than any number of expensive TV ads. And if the new guy at Lionel (who came from Marvel Comics) would take note that if Spiderman can sell "Twinkies" in a comic book ad (and he has), then he could just as easily sell trains. Here's some free ad copy to anyone who wants it : " This Holiday Season, give your family a user friendly, multi-player, reality-based home entertainment system that's been popular for over one hundred years ! It's called a Lionel Train ". With artwork by Angela Trotta Thomas, and photos of a simple under-the-tree layout, someone might be interested enough to call an 800 number, and find a dealer. It's worth a try.

[dwiemer]

I think exposure is the big thing. If kids see a train running, action will sell. I did this at Dillard's as they had a static polar express set. I fired her up and hit the whistle. Within minutes, people were there, some with kids, some without, but all wanting the train.
I agree that advertising is the key. Perhaps Mandy Patinkin, or Tom Snyder talking right into the camera saying "Remember how Christmas used to be?, families being together, a beautiful tree decked out with lights and ornaments, and a Lionel train." then pull back to a scene with Dad looking over as jr has a smile from ear to ear watching the Lionel.
I am grown now, still have my Sears set from the early 70's, and have a young son and daughter. They both love trains and this warms my heart. I look forward to the lessons I can teach about electricity, motors, gears, physics, etc, but mostly, I look forward to spending time with my children, if nothing else, just watching the trains go.
Dennis

[tschmidt]

mbacklas,

First of all, welcome to the forum. It's great to see your whole family getting into the hobby. Add-on cars, extra track, fun accesories, all make fun gifts that your children will enjoy. Many of them don't cost a lot of money.

Have fun and enjoy the hobby.
Tom S

[LS1Heli]

You know I think you might be right....I know what set your talking about. I remember seeing it at a local train show for MIB for like $45. Never knew that it was at Toys R Us though! My sorry but after looking at it...what junk.

I got my first Lionel set for Christmas in 1987. It was from Toy R Us and was the Rock Island DC powered "Rail Blazer Set". I think it was $85.00. I also got two pieces of MPC rolling stock...which means they were sitting on the shelf for a couple of years. After that I remember going there in 88 and 89 to pick stuff up but things were slim. I remember my parents "transferring" over to hobby shops in the early 90's because they just phased Lionel out...they really did.

[Anonymous]

My family is new to the hobby. My wife and I were looking for a Christmas gift for our boys that: 1: we could share with them 2: did not involve a tv. 3: engaged there imagination. 4: was not a piece of junk. Lara thought about trains and after looking around, Lionel's description of the hobby was right on the mark for us. The very detailed, life like layouts we saw in MR was intimidating. However I saw a simple plan using a green bed sheet and crumpled newspaper stuffed under it as a mountain and we were off railroading! Soon the boys had out the Lincoln Logs, Hot Wheels, cowboy and indians, ect. to use on the layout. Mom even shipped chocolate chip cookies via the train to the boys. The initial cost is not as much as buying a X Box with games or a Walmart cart full of junk I’ll toss out before Valentines Day. Thank you all for supporting your favorite hobby store. If there was not a lionel dealer near me I would have found another Hobby for us, I could not have gotten there kind of help from a big box store.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Here is the link to "If I Could Run Lionel"

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24653

Very interesting reading for what is there and what has changed drastically since then. For one Fastrack is here to stay. For another....the expansion sets are just what this hobby needs. I wonder if the dealers are selling allot of them. I hope they do some with other operating accessories like flag man or signals.

I guess what this hobby needs mostly is some creative marketing tieing family bonding to trains. I for one was surprised when I saw The Polar Express movie with my son and no mention was made of Lionel in a pre-movie commercial. Perhaps they will consider adding "30 Minutes of Lionel Polar Express Action" as a bonus on the DVD.

Jim H

[pbjwilson]

SCRAPBOOKING - This is how a hobby grows. Chicks talk and talk and talk. The word spreads and a hobby grows. Simple!

[pbjwilson]

Wait a minute. I recall several years ago the Lionel Construction set selling at Toys R Us. I think retail was around $69-$79. It had an RS-3 engine without reverse or horn. I think it had a headlite. Some gondolas without operating couplers. A loop of track and a playmat. They also sold the Safari set with a 2-4-0 steam engine. It too was under $100. This was maybe 2 or 3 years ago. I see the construction sets on e-bay now. They sell for around $50.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joe0315
[On the other side of the coin, why do you really care? Seriously...what is your personal motivation? So more "high end" stuff will be offered in the future...perhaps at lower prices? I'll be happy if my Grandchildren take up ANY hobby that does'nt involve video games. Joe

This is an incredibly interesting and relevant question that Joe has asked. Why do we care? I can think of three reasons:
1. As a parent I see toy trains (along with slot cars and only a handful of others) as realistically competing with video games for my kids' time. At least I hope it's the case.
2. When we put aside our parental/grandparental concerns we're really just a bunch of nostalgic aging boomers who long for a more innocent time. We've locked on to toy trains as a strong symbol of this time.
3. Toy Trains in and of themselves are magical! All those tiny wheels hugging all that track, starting, stopping, spouting smoke and all lit up--Hey it's magical isn't it? We want to keep the magic alive long after we're gone. In order to do so the hobby needs a constant source of newcomers.

As well, this question of growing the hobby was rather extensively discussed in a thread by Big Boy 4005 (aka Elliot) entitled "If I Could Run Lionel..." started Nov. 16, 2004. Check out the archives if you're interested.

[tschmidt]

I agree with some of the others that I don't think "cheap" is the way to go. Cheap would mean low quality and probably unreliability. A populat book and movie created a lot of interest in trains with the Polar Express. If any of the companies can capitalize on something like that again they will create an interest in trains. A nice set with Fastrack and an engine and a few cars for $150 to $200 is not out of line considering what other electronic toys cost these days. I received my first train for Christmas 50 years ago from my parents. I remember my dad putting it around the tree every year and buying me a new car to add to the set every Christmas. Maybe that's what we should do for our children or grandchildren. As I grew older I put it around my own tree and now I have a new interest.

Whether you are looking for a starter set or high end equipment, there is something in this hobby for everyone.

Tom S

[jimhaleyscomet]

Perhaps one of the other vendors should mass market a cheap set. Perhaps K-line...wait a minute they are bankrupt now.

Perhaps Lionel knows what they are doing.

p.s. At age 5 I was the proud recipient of a "cheap" scout locomotive with no smoke, just a headlight, forward and reverse, two cars and a caboose. I still have it today and just ran it last week for a visitor. For 35 years that was the only train I ran. I would get it out at Christmas and add a piece of track or two. My son saw it and said he wanted one for his 10th Christmas. He now has a 4 x 16 layout in his room along with several MTH DCS sets, two Lionel command engines, and a multitude of conventional engines and cars. He is 13.5 now and still will not let me take it down.

Jim H

[daan]

I don't think that cheap pricing is the solution. Cheap usually means bad quality. There are thousends of kids with a playstation or X-box costing also more then $75 dollars.
The big thing is with advertising. Make clear that everyone needs that trainset you're selling, That you're only a cool guy when you have a train.
Make a movie with 0 gauge trains like Thomas, Make fantastic advertising on television on a nice layout with sounds and smoke and great scenery.

Why do kids want a playstation? Because on the television they are fed advertisements about games you can play with it. One game costs over 60 euro's here!
Roco tried to get sales booming with cheap trains, but it's over and out for Roco (untill someone else decided to make a jumpstart with it) just because they DIDN"T ADVERTIZE!

If you make people believe that they NEED your product, by adverts etc, you can sell anything. Even 4 plastic bags costing $40,- or special computer keyboards (99 euro's).
Advertisement is the big key word!!

[Anonymous]

Just a few personal thoughts. I think Lionel offering FasTrack in starter sets will do a lot towards people expanding their sets past the Holidays/Christmas. I agree no one should "get in bed" with the "big guys". Look what happened to Lionel and AF in the 50's with Sears, and others. Low cost junk that hurt their good names. As I've said before, pre-Holiday print ads in womans magazines may help. How about a basic, no-frills set that sorta looks like the Acela? After all, it's what kids today can relate to besides "Thomas".
On the other side of the coin, why do you really care? Seriously...what is your personal motivation? So more "high end" stuff will be offered in the future...perhaps at lower prices? I'll be happy if my Grandchildren take up ANY hobby that does'nt involve video games. Joe

[LS1Heli]

None of the proposed would ever happen.

I remember when I was a kid Lionel sets could be purchased at Toys R Us. Not anymore. It has turned in a hobby shop only hobby.

[cbq9911a]

Advertising:

"You can't buy them at Wal-Mart. You can't buy them at Target. You can't buy them at Macys. Call 1-800-4-LIONEL for the nearest genuine Lionel dealer."

Product tie-ins:

"Buy a Honda automobile and take delivery before December 25 and get a genuine top of the line Lionel train set with smoke and whistle."

Naming Rights:

"Welcome to the Lionel Electric Trains Whistle Bowl. This has been an incredible blow out. Northwestern is leading Notre Dame at halftime 70 - 0. Let's cut away to the Lionel Visitor's Center for our Halftime Show."

[Anonymous]

Instead of $75 cheap starter sets, Lionel should make a simple commercial with a train running, smoking, whistle blowing and a kid with his parents playing with the train. I have younger kids 7 and under and they knew nothing about Lionel until I brought out my old MPC set and I began collecting. Show the commercial at kids movies in the theatres, or buy some air time during Frosty or Rudolph-show The Polar Express during Christmas. Another great idea is advertise in kids magazines like the olden days-I bet an add in Boys Life would drum up business! Lionel-are you listening? Just my 2 cents worth-

[Anonymous]

I forgot to add that no toy train manufactorer in their right mind should get in bed with Walmart, or any other large retailer! Talk about a one sided abusive relationship. I wouldn't wish it upon my competitors!

Again... just my two cents which in some parts of the world is only worth 1/2 a cent. [:D]
Greg

[Anonymous]

Continue to target FATHERS who will instill a joy of toy trains in their kids. Lionel knew this fact 60 years ago, and rode that pony hard. Let's face it... no amount of $ 75.00 sets will grow the hobby unless a parent or an uncle or a Grandpa who has an interest in trains, passes that interest on to the next generation.

I pose a question back... why should a manufactorer lose money on a $ 75.00 set with no guarrantee to build the hobby? The same folks who would buy a $ 75.00 set would have spent $ 200.00 for a set.

Us on this site, and thousands of other toy train lovers, who have kids... it is our responsibility to share this hobby with our kids, and their friends as a means of growing the hobby, and not hoard the joy! The hobby will grow, IF we share in the joy. In my opinion, a 75.00 set will do nothing to help nurture this hobby. It will only hurt the bottom line of the manufactorers who we WANT to keep making trains.
Greg

[jimhaleyscomet]

There is alot of talk on another thread onr the high cost of trains hurting the hobby. I would like to pose a similar but very different question.

What could Manufacturers and retailers do to get more folks interested in O guage?

In my humble opinion...A modern single motor diesel with horn (no bell), one (husky style) car, one caboose, a transformer and a small oval of track. Price it at $75 and sell it at Wall mart and all the other big box retailers at Christmas.

On the other hand perhaps the K-lines battery operated set is the ticket.

Would the dealers and distributers go along with this?

Any one else with ideas?

Jim H