Considering Switching to Standard Gauge

[Anonymous]

Thanks again for all the replies!!! I do agree that there is some common sense in considering repro stuff. If I followed the "purist" philosophy to its logical extreme for example, I would only use vintage standard track which is a hassle to find it seems and not really worth the return benefits (if there are any). I also worry that I will spend far more than I need on something which will tank in value in a couple years if Lionel re-issues it with the Lionel name on it. Maybe I am just thinking too much about all of it (that would be my wife's vote).

[Anonymous]

I just got some of my first SG items and they are truly wonderful! But there's a few pre-war and postwar "O" pieces that I just couldn't image giving up. I love that Flying Yankee. I love operating with command.

I'll be putting together a nice, if small SG layout. SG goes great under the christmas tree, too.

But the argument that SG is sooo much more expensive is rapidly fading for the same reasons that the secondary and PW "O" markets are tanking. (Lots of stuff out there and a shrinking market.) The exceptions are the same in SG as in O. You want mint w/box? You will pay. You want rare, big name sets (ie: Blue Comet, State) in premo condition? You will pay.

You want a nice set of common trains in decent condition to run? I think with just a little effort you'll pay considerably less than what MTH is asking for NIB reproductions.

Speaking of MTH reproductions, I think they're great. I love looking at them, and I'm glad they're available. For one thing, they're one of the factors driving down the price of the original stuff for me. But I just haven't been able to buy a set, even though I probably could. They just aren't the same thing.

Getting back to you're original question, if you operate your trains, I'd hold off on dumping your "O" stuff - see if you can plan a SG layout that really will do all the stuff you wanna do in the space you have available. That, and I think some of the pre-war "O" stuff has the same appeal. I wouldn't want to limit myself.

Have fun!

Old 2037

[Anonymous]

I may be in minority here, but I have, do, and will purchase all manner of prewar items both o and std with the intention of restoring them myself. I know that is not everyones idea of a good time, but I have always had great success doing so. Right now I have 3 or 4 sets of passenger cars waiting for a few more parts and some new matched paint. I am amused by people that are all or nothing, ie: if its cheap its junk and always will be. On the other hand those people contribute to keeping prices low ont he stuff I buy. Maybe the key for is that I enjoy the working on the trains as much as running them and that is what it is all about!

[Anonymous]

If you have the money and the room for standard I say go for it!!!
Standerd Gauage frepresents more than Model trains, I feel they are working pieces of metal art,They are beautifull to watch!!!!![^]

[Anonymous]

Thanks once again to all of you for your thoughful/insightful replies. The past few years I have been a "collector" in reality, and now I would like to build a layout and finally play with these things again. Thank you for encouraging me in the direction of repros as well, I may have rushed to judgment on too many of them. I do love the "presence" and "umph" of the big trains, as well as their history. I really liked the comment about knowing these have been played with - I think scratches, worn areas, etc are history in themselves. I toured an old Victorian historic home recently and the docent was explaining that the standard gauge lionel layout still on display a hundred years later was not only significant for Lionel collectors, but in their own right as a sign of the times then - that these electric toys were a way of showing off not only electrification, but disposable income to purchase toys relying on electricity!!! To me, it's just amazing how far we have come along now, to the point where we assume sometimes that the only significance of these trains is their limited numbers and number of years they have existed.

One thing I would miss is the sheer variety of O gauge as compared to Standard. Yet, for various reasons (finances, time, etc) I would prefer to focus on one only.

Well, thanks again to all of you and please keep the insights/replies coming!!!!

[FJ and G]

I know you're not considering MTH or other repro stuff; but since price is a sticking point, you may wi***o further explore the repro world, esp. if you're a runner/ not a collector (you indicated you're a collector but were excited about a layout you saw).

Here's my buddies O gauge MTH Blue Comet, purchased by his wife as a surprise Christmas present:

[palallin]

BTW, anyone considering Standard Gauge really ought to get hold of a copy of David doyle's new book, the Standard Catalog of Prewar Lionel Trains. In addition to th other common references, this book provides a multitude of very helpful illustrations and good coverage of the evolution of the variations. It covers 2 7/8", Standard, O, and OO till '42. It's a bargain at around $25.

[Anonymous]

Got a question. Why do the MTH STG starter sets come in the the contempory version only? Why not traditional style too?

[csxt30]

I always spend time at this site & thought I'd pass it along to those not aware of it. Thanks, John
http://stdgauge.blogspot.com/

[jakeoregano]

Wow, when I see pix like that I'd like to get a standard gauge myself! These are big trains. I just don't have the room for the them. I have barely enough room for my O.

For what it's worth, I really prefer original over new production. I agree with some of the comments here about the originals and their history. I don't mind restored if it's done right, and honestly if it's not restored and it looks new, I'd be afraid to run it. Niceks and scratches means someone enjoyed the train before me. I kinda like that idea.

Anyway, good luck with your decision. There are a lot of nice prewar O gauge trains that have the Standard gauge look. If you haven't looked at them, they might be worth thinking about too.

Regards,
Dwayne.

[prewardude]

Wow - that is beautiful! Can you imagine being a kid back then and opening up the set box for this set for the first time? Those were the days...

[pbjwilson]

Look at this beauty! When I see stuff like this I want to switch to Standard gauge too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/AF-Standard-Gauge-Pocahontas-Passenger-Set-E_W0QQitemZ6026626010QQcategoryZ4145QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[cheapclassics]

To all,

One more point to consider. Regardless of your preference for new or old engines and rolling stock, the re-issues MTH did on the switches were outstanding. I did a review for CTT on them a couple of years ago, and I have five on my layout now. While you can get by with old curves and straights (although I am gradually replacing those), the frustration factor with old switches can really ruin some good operating sessions. List price on them is comparable to list on remote Fasttrack and O-31 switches so they are not totally unreasonable, and they have extra plastic between the rails to prevent "roller drop" that even the best original Lionel did not have.

Keep on training,

Mike C. from Indiana

[Anonymous]

Once again, we have a great example of how diverse, and fun this hobby is. Here we're talking Std. Gauge, and we're very blessed to have options. Whether you want vintage, or the latest technology... you can choose! It's that simple. I'm not mister tinker by any stretch of the imagination, so if I were to make the switch, or go in this direction, I'd go with new production. Are they shiny, or what??? That said... how can you not love the vintage stuff, and the history. Imagine being a kid in the 1920's getting a Lionel Train set... that had to be about tops. It's still tops. [:D] Good luck with the change... I bet you're gonna have some fun.
Greg

[Anonymous]

Prewar wise, I'm attracted to professionaly restored tinplate "O" for a number of reasons. First the nostalgia aspect. It was probably gotten by some kid in the 20's or 30's, and looks "new"(as it did when they got it). It's manageable, for me, in terms of running on my current "O" layout, as well as display space. It's more affordable, since few people want restored or "O"(compared to "Standard"). I only buy this at train shows to see the true quality of the restoration. By the way, I have no interest in a prewar "scale" Lionel loco pulling tinplate rolling stock...a goofy looking combination, IMO. Joe

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the replies and please keep the insights coming. I truly like original, vintage items the best, scratches, missing handrails and all. There is something wonderful about knowing the pieces actually came from such an early era in Lionel production and in knowing some things about that history. The MTH stuff is nice looking, but almost looks too perfect to me. Also, the few MTH accessories I have bought have been poorly constructed and some have even fallen apart (clock tower, lights, etc). Maybe this is simply because I was buying cheap accessories, I have never owned any of the tinplate traditions sets or cars.

I am also wondering how easy it would be to find someone reputable to service these items (vintage SG).

Thanks again and please keep replies pros/cons insights coming!!

Kyle

[palallin]

For one thing, I like the patina. Seriously, I prefer the used (and even abused) over the new and shiny. These toys have a history; it gives me a great deal of pleasure to ponder what kids may have played with them--where, when, and how. If only they could talk!

Further, the new stuff leaves no room to tinker. And I have no desire whatsoever for can motors or sound system! They ruin the tinplate charm for me.

That being said, I have picked up one repro, a Scenic Plot made by Ron Morris. I figure that it's got a history in its own right ;-)

The other reason is my pig-headedness. I refuse to line Mike Wolf's pockets. It's not a popular position today, but I have my reasons, some rational, some not so.

I'm certainly not stuck on Lionel, though: about 1/3 of my rolling stock is IVES (as is about half my track), and I'm looking at some Flyer.

[Anonymous]

So true! That said, I'm just grateful for the items that are being made today. They sparked my interest in Standard Gauge, and kept the flames going.

[Anonymous]

There's nothing like an original be it a toy train, a rare baseball card, or a painting. Truly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[cheapclassics]

To all,

I will relate a story to illustrate my position. Thru various events, I had acquired an original 8E set and a restored 10E, and I wanted a 384E to complete my collection of desired small SG engines. I located one at a large mail order firm and purchased it with the understanding that it did run. While it looked great, it would not turn over. The dealer made a full refund. For nearly the same amount of money, I was able to purchase a MTH RTR set that also had a caboose and box car with a Z1000 transformer. The sounds and smoke are incredible. While I will not tinker with the 8E, the 10E may be getting a new sound system as well. I enjoy collecting and running the original, but the new stuff is much cheaper than original in the same condition.

Keep on training,

Mike C. from Indiana

[nblum]

"I'm kind of interested in knowing why folks might turn their nose up at the great Standard Gauge items that are being offered today."

My reason is simple. I don't want replicas of Lionel's iconic models that have been reproduced, without any acknowledgement of the original maker, and bearing the "MTH" logo where the "Lionel" logo should go on a proper reproduction. I wouldn't want a replica of a Frank Lloyd Wright house with "Levitt" embossed on the front door either :). A small point, but one that is meaningful to me.

[Anonymous]

I, too, am interested in knowing why you have no interest in the contemporary stuff. It's as well or better made, in most cases, than a lot of the original items, and it's relatively affordable. I'm not knocking the original items or those who collect them, but I'm kind of interested in knowing why folks might turn their nose up at the great Standard Gauge items that are being offered today. I have a whole lot of Standard Gauge (all contemporary--Lionel, MTH, McCoy, etc.), but wouldn't have any had it not been for Richard Kughn and Mike Wolf.

[prewardude]

I would think again about the MTH stuff - it's fantastic! I have the 384E freight set from '04 and couldn't be happier.

[palallin]

Well, $5000 on a 400E is a bit steep. . . .

SG isn't crude: it's art, and it's no more expenxive than postwar on the whole. Really decent sets go on eBay in the $400-$600 range; EX+ for about twice that or so. Modern Era, brand-new product doesn't go for any less (I think Frank Petruccio was the first to make that point in the popular press).

I've been bitten by SG, too, though I won't switch entirely (I have too muc invested in O: $$$$, nostalgia/memories, and commonality with the rest of the family. Like khdawg, I prefer the originals rather than the new Lionel (and I won't touch anything made by MTH). I can't afford much, but I can tinker and refurbish, and it looks spiffy under the Christmas tree.

[LS1Heli]

Just like postwar Lionel. If you buy stuff thats cheap then you buy junk. Standard Gauge commands top dollar for nice pieces...even without a box. It's large, crude and mysterious at the same time. I was into once for about 10min. Then I came to my senses and went back to pristine postwar. Though it would be nice to own a 400E. I just can't see spending $5,000 on a 400E with such a toy look to it. The stuff from the 40's and 50's is a crude as I go. [8D]

[Anonymous]

I have been collecting Lionel since the age of about 8 (thanks dad) and for about 25 years after (although sporadically) and have focused almost exclusively on O gauge. I guess I have a somewhat modest collection for a collector, less than 200 pieces most likely (of total rolling stock, sets are included in that along with buildings). I do have several (maybe 20) pieces of Standard Gauge. I have no layout now, but want to build one again soon now that I have settled into some space again.

My dillema is that I have been "bit" by Standard Gauge since seeing such a layout recently. I am considering selling most of my O Gauge to finance a transition to Standard. I think I just love the presence of Standard gauge, the simplicity, antiquity, etc. I am not really into scale modeling, but would like something authentic as it might have appeared in the early days of Lionel. I could probably never afford a great condition premium original Standard set, but I suspect I could put some things together over the years piece by piece. I'm not at all interested in the MTH repros or the new Lionel Standard stuff available recently. Nor do I want to combine an O with Standard on the same layout.

I would greatly appreciate any honest, informative thoughts/ideas/feedback on this. Thank you all in advance.