Lionel Santa Fe passenger FT/F3 sets

[Trainnut484]

Hello all. I was wanting to purchase a Lionel Santa Fe passenger FT or F3 ABA set. I have looked on EBAY, but am put off by lack of quality pictures and descriptions of those posted. I do buy and sell train and model train related stuff on EBAY myself, but don't know that much about Lionel or MTH. I model in HO, but would like to have a set for display or run under the Christmas tree. Are there still any Santa Fe passenger FT or F3 sets still available at hobby stores or online hobby stores? Thanks in advance for all the helpful information.

Russell

[LS1Heli]

Of course there is. There is a big difference between an F3 ABA set and an FT set. You need to do your homework and look at the prices. The Lionel FT set I have which I believe is 6-3001 is a super nice set with sounds and fastrack (which I can't live without). The soldout-but you can still get them is the Lionel 6-31742 PWC Santa Fe set. 10x better than the original but is a premium set and will cost OVER twice as much as the FT set which as track and the optional FT B unit. I could careless about MTH so I can not answer that one.

[Anonymous]

If you want a set of F3 diesels with some heft to them, built like a tank, great looks and ease of repair parts if you decide to run them, Look at older Lionel 2333, 2343 and 2453 Santa Fe F3 diesels, duel motored, horn and on some of them magnatraction or magnetic traction assist insead of rubber traction tires. You get old styyle open frame motors that make that wonderfull ozone smell as they run under the tree. Train City in Erie, PA has a real nice set of 2353 SF diesels for $349 if I remember correctly, he has a online site as well as a auction site. I just purchased a pair of 2333 SF F3 diesels made in 1949 and after a good cleaning and tune up they run like new, I plan to have the shells restored by L&L screen printing over the summer while they are not in use on the layout.. I handle his repair work and can vouche for the quality of his trains. Cheers Mike

[Trainnut484]

QUOTE: Posted: Today, 17:12:31by LS1Heli
Of course there is. There is a big difference between an F3 ABA set and an FT set. You need to do your homework and look at the prices. The Lionel FT set I have which I believe is 6-3001 is a super nice set with sounds and fastrack (which I can't live without). The soldout-but you can still get them is the Lionel 6-31742 PWC Santa Fe set. 10x better than the original but is a premium set and will cost OVER twice as much as the FT set which as track and the optional FT B unit. I could careless about MTH so I can not answer that one.

Thanks LS1Heli. What is fastrack? Is it a power pak or control system? I didn't know that the B unit was optional on those.

QUOTE: Posted: Today, 18:00:28 by LGBF7
If you want a set of F3 diesels with some heft to them, built like a tank, great looks and ease of repair parts if you decide to run them, Look at older Lionel 2333, 2343 and 2453 Santa Fe F3 diesels, duel motored, horn and on some of them magnatraction or magnetic traction assist insead of rubber traction tires. You get old styyle open frame motors that make that wonderfull ozone smell as they run under the tree. Train City in Erie, PA has a real nice set of 2353 SF diesels for $349 if I remember correctly, he has a online site as well as a auction site. I just purchased a pair of 2333 SF F3 diesels made in 1949 and after a good cleaning and tune up they run like new, I plan to have the shells restored by L&L screen printing over the summer while they are not in use on the layout.. I handle his repair work and can vouche for the quality of his trains. Cheers Mike

Thanks Mike for the info. Do have a link for Train City? Other links would be great too. I thought about getting a postwar set, but don't know the required maintenance that's needed, and where to go for the maintenance. What are the differences between 2333, 2343, and 2453 Santa Fe F3's?

More information from others is appreciated too.

Take care,

Russell

[BlackJack]

The Lionel Santa Fe FT units were released in the late nineties I believe, and have middle of the road details. They were released in AA sets in either conventional or TMCC. B units were available, and have been rereleased
Lionel uses the FT in their entry level diesel passenger sets, as an A unit with Railsounds (now trainsounds), and three passanger cars. In 2005 a dummy B unit FT was reintroduced for around $80.
Lionel F3s include the classic post war tooled versions, that look (are) post war, but with TMCC electronics
Lionel also has newly tooled F3s that truly are scale models with lots of detail.

MTH makes detailed scale models of the FT in ABA and F3 in ABA. They are in the "premier" line and are very nice models. Their only real disadvantage is wired tethers between locomotives, vs Lionel's wireless technology. MTH also uses their system of train control called PS2. MTH also makes "railking scale" F3s that are knockoffs of the Lionel post war style (Lionel postwar isn't exactly scale-the windshields are smaller than scale for example). I think these F3s are ABA for around 450 dollars. Confusingly MTH also makes railking F3s that are smaller than the traditional lionels.

Williams trains introduced a line of postwar lionel style F3s in their Golden Memories line. Externally these look and are painted like postwar Lionels. Oddly though, they have a detailed front pilot, that would be more appropriate on a scale model, instead of a reproduction of a postwar type. These trains are great runners, but are conventional control only, with bell and whistle (no diesel sounds).

www.williamstrains.com www.mth-railking.com www.lionel.com

[LS1Heli]

Trainnut84: Fastrack is the new complete track system by Lionel. 100x better then conventional O27 or O gauge. Much easier to assemble, no gaps between track, the switches are actually the same height as the track, realistic ties and ballast, no unsightly lockons and the rails are more square shaped then on O27 and O which I feel makes a difference in operation. Only disadvantage is that some older Lionel accessories will not work and therefore you will need a Fastrack to O gauge transition piece to make them work...but worry about that later. The Lionel Santa Fe FT set that I am talking about is available for only $269.99 at www.wholesaletrains.com. I just checked there because I am looking for the $80 FT B unit. Such a great set with sound and a 40x60 oval of Fastrack!

[Kooljock1]

LS1Heli,

The new FasTrack Operating Tracks came out this week. They have removeable side sections of roadbed for use in Milk Platforms and placing next to Barrel Car bins, Saw Mills, etc...

I haven't used one or read the instructions yet, but it appears to have some rather complex wiring and contacts built in, and may be compatible with Cattle Cars and the overhead coal loader, but not having one I can't confirm this. But it does appear that LIONEL put quite a bit of thought into this design.

As far as LIONEL's Santa Fe F-T is concerned, it does have twin CAN motors with fly-wheels, TrainSounds (which is a non-TMCC version of LIONEL's RailSounds system), plus die-cast trucks, fuel-tank, pilot, and couplers. Get the "B" unit. It gives the train more "presence", and gives you another Operating Coupler on the rear, which the "A" unit does not have.

It is a VERY smooth runner, and unlike a Post War styled F-3a, is not a power hog. The cars in the set also come with fully detailed interiors and overhead lighting and are ready for the installation of some hand-painted passengers(MTH makes a great line of these). The cars have well designed die-cast trucks and couplers, and there are rubber diaphragms between the cars.

And it comes with FasTrack! Which is certainly what my next layout will be built with!

Jon [8D]

[Anonymous]

The website for Train City's auctions is choochooauctions.com, you can link from there to the store site, its not always up to date on whats avaible for sale in the shop so its best to call. The 2333 is the first version of the postwar F3, horizontal motors, slower top speed and more growling from the gears, but will run forever. 2343 added magnetraction or magnetic traction assist, 2353 lost some of the extra details that the earlier ones had on the shell. The 2333 and 2343 are the most popluar of the bunch, some say the 2333 with its lack of magnetraction is slippery. I have found it pulls whatever I need on my loop of track, 14' x 30' over head loop, Now if your pulling a 30' long train on a super size layout then yes anything with all metal wheels will slip some. The 2333 need less power to run that the magnetraction 2343's. I run my 2333's on an old postwar starter set transformer from 1949 for hours on end without any problems. Maintance is super easy once you do it the first time. 3 screws hold the shell on the frame, you have several points to oil and grease on the inside on the motors and the trucks, motor brush replacement is easy once the motors are removed from the trucks by loosing 2 screws. Bearings get a light machine oil, NOT 3in1 household oil (its bad), and the gears and worm gears get grease. everything is straight forward in assembly via screws. I specialize in F3 maintance so feel free to email me off site and I can contact you directly if you decide to get a postwar set. Let us all know what you decide to get.

[philo426]

If you want F-3s on a budget look for the MPC era F-3 especially the Preamble express.I got a used one on E-bay and had to lube and clean it but it ran like a champ.I mated to a Santa Fe postwar Shell I had re-painted and painted the diecast frame silver.Looks and runs great!

[Kooljock1]

Didn't the Preamble Express use an ALCo FA? Or maybe I'm thinking of something else?


Jon [8D]

[Jumijo]

I have the Santa Fe El Capitan set, led by an FT. The loco refuses to cycle from F-N-R via lowering the throttle to a stop. It will cycle if you use the direction button. Also, it won't move until approx 8 volts get to it, then it takes off like a shot instead of smoothly powering up. I could take it in to have it checked out, but I run the risk of having it come back worse off than how it went in.

The Railsounds horn and bell are very pleasing, but to be honest, the constant diesel sound (kind of a hum) is a little annoying to me. Most times I run the train, I shut the sound off.

Jim

[Trainnut484]

QUOTE: Posted: 27 Dec 2005, 21:37:11by LS1Heli
Trainnut84: Fastrack is the new complete track system by Lionel. 100x better then conventional O27 or O gauge. Much easier to assemble, no gaps between track, the switches are actually the same height as the track, realistic ties and ballast, no unsightly lockons and the rails are more square shaped then on O27 and O which I feel makes a difference in operation. Only disadvantage is that some older Lionel accessories will not work and therefore you will need a Fastrack to O gauge transition piece to make them work...but worry about that later. The Lionel Santa Fe FT set that I am talking about is available for only $269.99 at www.wholesaletrains.com. I just checked there because I am looking for the $80 FT B unit. Such a great set with sound and a 40x60 oval of Fastrack!

Thanks LS1Heli for the fastrack info. That might be the way to go for a train 'round the tree.

QUOTE: Posted: 28 Dec 2005, 18:55:09 by LGBF7
The website for Train City's auctions is choochooauctions.com, you can link from there to the store site, its not always up to date on whats avaible for sale in the shop so its best to call. The 2333 is the first version of the postwar F3, horizontal motors, slower top speed and more growling from the gears, but will run forever. 2343 added magnetraction or magnetic traction assist, 2353 lost some of the extra details that the earlier ones had on the shell. The 2333 and 2343 are the most popluar of the bunch, some say the 2333 with its lack of magnetraction is slippery. I have found it pulls whatever I need on my loop of track, 14' x 30' over head loop, Now if your pulling a 30' long train on a super size layout then yes anything with all metal wheels will slip some. The 2333 need less power to run that the magnetraction 2343's. I run my 2333's on an old postwar starter set transformer from 1949 for hours on end without any problems. Maintance is super easy once you do it the first time. 3 screws hold the shell on the frame, you have several points to oil and grease on the inside on the motors and the trucks, motor brush replacement is easy once the motors are removed from the trucks by loosing 2 screws. Bearings get a light machine oil, NOT 3in1 household oil (its bad), and the gears and worm gears get grease. everything is straight forward in assembly via screws. I specialize in F3 maintance so feel free to email me off site and I can contact you directly if you decide to get a postwar set. Let us all know what you decide to get

Mike, thanks again for your info. I might consider a postwar set, maybe the 2343's depending on what condition they're in. Weren't they made in the 1960's?

QUOTE: Posted: Today, 05:33:41by jaabat
I have the Santa Fe El Capitan set, led by an FT. The loco refuses to cycle from F-N-R via lowering the throttle to a stop. It will cycle if you use the direction button. Also, it won't move until approx 8 volts get to it, then it takes off like a shot instead of smoothly powering up. I could take it in to have it checked out, but I run the risk of having it come back worse off than how it went in.

The Railsounds horn and bell are very pleasing, but to be honest, the constant diesel sound (kind of a hum) is a little annoying to me. Most times I run the train, I shut the sound off.

Jim

I looked into the EL CAP set, but I didn't like having just one locomotive, which didn't feel right for me. Thanks for the cycle and sound information.

QUOTE: Posted: 28 Dec 2005, 23:59:30 by philo426
If you want F-3s on a budget look for the MPC era F-3 especially the Preamble express.I got a used one on E-bay and had to lube and clean it but it ran like a champ.I mated to a Santa Fe postwar Shell I had re-painted and painted the diecast frame silver.Looks and runs great!

What is or was the MPC era?

All above information is very helpful and greatly appreciated. I'm stll looking (or shopping) for a set. The F3 ABA set looks more promising.

Take care,

Russell

[Anonymous]

The 2333's were 1948-1949, 2343 were 1950-mid 50's 2353's came after that. Most consider the 2343's the best of the bunch as they had the most detail and magnetraction. I prefer the 2333's for the lower power draw as I dont need the magnetic traction. Cheers MIke

[philo426]

The Preamble express is an F-3 no doubt about it!The Mpc era was the time from 1970-86 when Lionel was run by Fundimensions a division of general Mills.They re-issued many of the postwar engines and added a couple new diesels(the U33c and the GP-20).They did make some mistakes by substituting nylon gears in place of the postwar metal but only on certain engines.(The FM and the GG1 come to mind).but my MPC F-3 runs great much better than I anticipated when I won the auction and the prices now are real bargains.Sure thay do not have the sound systems or detail of modern Lionel but they do have a certain appeal at bargain prices.

[LS1Heli]

The 2333 is from 1948-49 and the 2343 is from 1950-52. The 2353 is from 1953-55 and then 1956-57 the Santa Fe F-3 went to a single motor AB 027 unit numbered 2243. Finally in 1958 the AA came back with dual motors, black trucks and was number 2383. It died in 1966. I have all of them and they all run good except the 2383s with their dual verical motors are much smoother and so much more quieter. I prefer to run them. The others are just so *** loud.

MPC F-3's are awesome. Though in reality the MPC 8652/53 Santa Fe F-3 is acutally much more difficult to come buy and generally more expensive than it's postwar counterparts. But as it with everything MPC no one gives a you know what because..well it's MPC. Anything MIB for this AA combo under $500 I consider a steal.

Keep in mind that MPC onward engines are going to have 10x better paint, graphics, decals, and lettering. If your looking for a "perfect" 2333,43,53,83 you will pay top dollar.

[lionelsoni]

You may notice that the dummy B unit for the 2243 (2243C) is usually more expensive than the A unit (2243P). This is because no B unit was ever made for the 2383; and the 2243C was a perfect match for it. Anyone who wants to run a prototypical Santa Fe ABBA lashup needs a couple of 2243Cs, which drives their price up.

[Trainnut484]

I just wanted to thanks those who replied above and by email. I now have some info in hand, but still undecided. I guess the lure of an SF F3 ABA set is due to the Christmas season. But, they would look good on shelf display.

Take care,

Russell