POLL - Lionel & Williams F3 Same Price - What Would you Pick??

[FEClionel]

After doing some browsing on Ebay I have noticed that you can find an MPC, Very Good + PW or even a few late model Lionel F3's priced about the same as Williams Classic Reproductions($300, give or take $25. What do you all think is best bang for the buck???

[dwiemer]

If it is a Post war from 49, I would snatch it up. If it is MPC and the Williams is a new or like new, go for the Williams- very well made and dependable.
Dennis

[Frank53]

Buckeye's gonna yell at you again.

[{(-_-)}]

[daan]

I would go for a Williams classic series except when it's a postwar Lionel. The earlier Lionel F3's (horizontal or vertical motors and magnetraction) are very dependable, but they have been on the tracks for a long time. They have mechanical e-units which can give you some trouble, the horn is more a buzzer with possible battery damage and they probably need a good service. If you've done that, they run nice and sound. But if you are purely buy the machines to work on the layout, I would choose the Williams, since they have momentum flywheels, electronic e-units and electronic horns in it. They simply have better performance when operating and less chance for trouble.
However, if they quit working, you need spareparts. A can motor can't be fixed, but needs replacement. The same for an electronic e-unit and horn (repair is possible, but you need some knowledge about electronics), where the older Lionels can be fixed with minor spareparts or just some tinkering/ lubrication.
I have a postwar F3 myself, and though it's from 1953, it still works like a champ.(annual service; lubrication and cleaning)

[statistician]

I would say that the decision between Lionel and Williams depends on the set of Lionel F3s and if you are looking at roadname selection.

The later MPC F3s (like the chrome-plated Burlington, Red and Green Pennsylvania, Southern Pacific, and Union Pacific) can be found in Mint condition on ebay for around $300, they'll run well with their dual Pullmor motors, and will have some collector-value as they were never made prior to their time and not likely to ever be made again using the non-scale (traditional) F3 casting.

So the late MPC F3 sets get my vote for overall roadname uniqueness!]

[Jumijo]

William's trains have a limited lifetime guarantee, all metal gears, are brand new, therefore mint in box . . .

Jim

[Munster518]

Am a big of those lionel F3's, but if you really want a runner, go with the williams F units. They've got a descent sound unit and they run fantastic. Last year, I picked up the williams New haven F units and they look identical to the lionel version except more then half the price you would pay for the postwar version.

John[:)]

[andregg1]

HI
MPC vs Williams I go to Williams lifetime warranty and is like postwar quality
(mpc= model plastic crap)
Andre.

[okiechoochoo]

Williams lifetime warranty on the Golden Memory F units can't be beat. There are several F3 ABA sets in different road names on the auction site now for $270 mint. Can't beat that , Go Williams[:)]

[Anonymous]

I myself swear by Lionel postwar F3 diesel, preferalble the 2333 and 2343 diesels, while the horizontal motors are a bit slower, thier creeping speed and slow speed is better when properly tuned up and running correctly. I am both a train repair man and operator as well and I would rather maintain a postwar lionel then the newer stuff. I have had seveal customers switch from newer can motored diesels with circuit boards back to older Lionel diesels after having both motor and circuit failures. I can get parts at the local train show or from any online or mail order dealer for lionel, you have to go to williams or send your trains in to get repaired. Will williams be around for the duration of your lifetime?? With the turmoil in the hobby and the world in general, who knows, but I believe that parts for Lionel diesels will be around as long as folks continue to run them. Just my 2 cents

[Anonymous]

Williams

[Blueberryhill RR]

Even though, I am a post war Lionel fan, up to 1969, about, I would have to
go with the Williams. If you check, you can probably get a NEW set of Williams
F - 3's for the price of an exc. set of post war Lionel F- 3's.

[brianel027]

I have a hard time believing that anything used postwar Lionel (that's in very good visual condition - no marks or scratches - and not needing mechanical work) is close in price to brand new in the box Williams. The MPC stuff would be closer in price, if not lower.

Of course, on eBay it is always hit and miss. Sometimes you see something you might have wanted and see the closing price and wonder "darn, why didn't I bid on it? That closing price was a DEAL!" Then the next time you see the same thing, you do bid on it and the price goes way higher than your bid. Go figure. I've had that happen many times in the past.

If you are not a fan of the "electronic toasters" that come with all the new Lionel stuff, than Williams is the obvious choice. Although the Postwar Celebration stuff from Williams is a little bit higher in price than the usual Williams locos like the GP9, they are still a good deal and have much better looking paint and graphics than the original Lionel counterparts.

I don't agree though, that all MPC stuff is plastic crap. No doubt there are elements of MPC stuff that are not as good as the postwar counterparts, but there are certainly exceptions. Years ago I got a Lionel MPC Conrail operating barrel loader car for $25. It operates just as good as the postwar counterpart. And even though the vast majority of MPC locos have plastic gears, with a little more TLC they can still give years of service for what are today value prices when compared to original postwar. My MPC locos are all over 30 years old and still running just fine - and I paid a heck of a lot less for those than I would have for postwar Lionel.... or even new low-end Chinese-made Lionel for that matter.

Still on this matter, unless it was a super deal I'd go with the Williams. And maybe one day Lionel will make their locos as good quality as Williams does at the same price point, but I'm not holding my breath!!

[otftch]

I agree wholeheartedly with Brianel027.I can take any of my MPC diesels off the shelf and run them.The newer electronic stuff,not so.I think MPC has got a bad rap.I like Williams trains ,and run a couple of them but I think this is a "Chevy or Ford" debate.Of course I like AMC !
Ed

[FEClionel]

I purchased my Lionel UP 8480's on Ebay for $240 last month. I ran them for the first time last night and I was blown away! They run so smooth and quiet, especially at low speed! I was the first person to run these in 20 years so I added a little lube to them and they ran excellent! I love the mix of modfern and postwar about the MPC's. I have 10 F3's and these are my favorite runners of the group including my recently sold 2240 TMCC Wabash AB's. I might purchase the Williams Western Pacifics.

[Anonymous]

Well,

It depends on what you are looking for. If you want Southern Pacific, Maroon or Green Pennsylvania, Union Pacific, or the Chrome Burlington, then go with MPC.

But, If you want a repro of Lionel Postwar F3's, then you might want Williams.

But I am an MPC guy, so I say MPC.

[okiechoochoo]

FEC, if you want Williams Western Pacific F3s there is a mint AA set on ebay for $180 right now. If you can get it for that you can't beat it.