Another Newbie...Sort of

[BobbyDing]

Hello all,
Great site here. I'm returning to O / 027 gauge after a long absence and have many questions. I'm new to the forum and plan on doing a few searches for some of my questions, but I thought I'd toss out a few and see what happens. No doubt you've encountered these repeatedly, but here goes:

I own some post war Lionel (2023 UP passenger set and 2026 Freight set) and would like to expand the collection. I see Lionel is not the only player these days. So I'm curious about what you folks think about the other brands and their quality. My local hobby shops do not stock much, so I cannot window shop and judge for myself. In particular, I'm looking at purchasing two sets over the next year. A Southern Crescent Steam/Passenger set (madison cars) and a Southers Pacific FA diesel passenger set. Their web sites all have very pretty pictures, but which manufacturer in your opinion (K-line, MTH, Williams) makes the best / worst of these? Who seems the best in quality / cost? Anything I should stay away from?

(note: Rite now I am not interested in elaborate electronic control, just good running and nice sound).

Also, What I have now is 027 track. I'd like to get into the more realistic looking track. What's the proper terminology for the more realistic 3 rail track (black center rail) vs the 027? And again, who makes good stuff and who should I keep away from? I've been eyeing the atlas track in the magazines...Are they any good? Who do you folks think is the best quality on a low budget on track?

Oh, and will the above mentioned sets from all those manufacturers work on all the 3 rail tracks (I know the 027 track curve radius is two small for many)? How do I tell if a loco I'm buying will work on 3 rail or if it is a two rail rascal?

Thanks very much,

Bobby

[ChiefEagles]

First [#welcome][#welcome]. Thaks for giving us some info in your profile. Helps us "know" you a little better. Lots of good questions and I am sure you will get lots of replies. I think Lionel, MTH, Williams, Weaver, Atlas [high $$] and K-Line [in a little trouble now] all make great engines and rolling stock. There is FasTrack and Realtrax that have the roadbed made into the track. There is Atlas, K-Line and Gargraves that have continous ties and roadbed can be added. As for engines, if you ever want to get into command control, Lionel, Weaver [with TMCC], Atlas [with TMCC], K-line [with TMCC] and MTH with DCS are the way to go. Conventional running, Williams builds some strong and good running engines [as Lionel and MTH]. I got back into this about tow years ago with the "I'm going to only run conventional" attidtude. That soon changed and I am all Command. Even converting some of my "old stuff" to command. Sit back and study and listen [read] what everyone posts.

[cnw1995]

Welcome Bobby. You will find this place great for questions and browsing. We are probably at the tail end of a golden age of availability - all the manufacturers - big and small - Lionel, MTH, K-Line, Williams, Altas O, Weaver, RMT, to name a few - put out great equipment of all types. Each manufacturer has their partisans. You really will have to make up your own mind...depending on your preferences in the hobby and what you might define as a low-budget. Just about everything you've mentioned works on 3-rail tubular track... some manufacturers like Atlas and Weaver also make 2-rail 0 gauge models. Lionel and MTH make three-rail track that has a built-in plastic roadbed, in addition to the more traditional track; Altas, Ross and GarGraves make great track too.

[laz 57]

[#welcome][#welcome][#welcome] BOBBY,
Like the GIZ said a great place to get info and share some of your train experiences. As for Companies vieing for your dollar, they all are different grades of good. Buy what you like and can afford along with CTT and DA GIZ ask if there is anything you want to know before a purchase. As far as track goes I have both Lionel 0-27 and the fasttrack with no complaints. 0-27 is cheaper and great, fast track is more expensive and great.
Have a good stay.
Watch out for GIZ trying to get you hooked on GRITS[;)][;)].
laz57

[dwiemer]

Bobby,
Ditto on what the Chief has to say. I mostly have conventional (the old stuff) lionel, but have added a few of the newer things. I do not run any of the control packages yet, but most of my stuff can be converted. As for 027, they make the curve tracks in several wider radius curves (that is the limiting factor), some engines/rolling stock require wider turns. You should be aware of that on any purchase you make. One advantage to 027 is that it is cheap. Another is that it has a lower profile than O guage and looks a little more realistic. There are ways to have several different types of track on a layout. My plan includes Lionel Fastrack on the main lines, and 027 on the yards and branch lines. One thing to keep in mind when making your track choice, some track does not work with the magnatraction of the older lionel engines. the engine will run, but will have little tractive effort. You will see lots of differring opinions on this and other boards, but in the end, buy what you like. I would suggest a little trip to the bookstore and buy some of the model train magazines out there. after looking them over, choose at least one and subscribe. They are a good source to see what is out there. Also, they have good articles by regular type modellers and you can see what can be done with the different track systems, and what other goodies you may want to add to your system. One last note, you will find a lot of smart people on this forum, so ask any questions and check back often.
Dennis
Bobby, one other thought came to mind. Some of the other track systems do not work with some of the accessories. That is why I am using 027 for the yard and branch lines. I will have to use it for the milk and coaling station as well as some others.

[Roger Bielen]

Welcome to the forum Bobby.

As the others have stated there is a great range of choices to be had nowdays. Take the time to decide if you will stay conventional control or eventually get into command control. If conventional Williams is probably the best buy for engines and rolling stock based on postwar designs.

For track, again do you want to stay with traditional tubular or get into something more protypical, if semi-protypical, I found the best buy to be Gargraves, I used Flextrack. I understand they've improved their switches since I last used some, the majority of mine are Ross, hard to beat the quality. Using Gargraves I've used their accessory tracks and also modified standard sections to fit my needs.

[wrmcclellan]

Welcome Bobby - glad to have you on board! [#welcome]

Regards,
Roy

[daan]

Hi Bobby, Welcome here.
The drivability of engines is mostly in their motors. I have AC and DC (can motor) driven trains, and the AC motors have much higher torque. MTH uses 5 pole can motors, which are better in running smooth on lower speeds then the williams engines with 3 pole can motors.
Can motors tend to slow down in curves much more then AC motors and that is solved with cruisecontrol.
A can motor however is able to reach lower speeds then an AC motor.
Lionel is, as far as I know, the only manufacturer which uses AC motors in some models, all others have can motors.
MTH has a higher smoke output then most other brands, Williams is very good value for money.
K-line and Lionel also offer cheap engines, but they have tiny motors built inside the truck, which lack control and tend to derail. But they are drop dead cheap.
The more expensive K-line engines are great too.
Constructionwhise I like MTH and Lionel, those manufacturers deliver a clean and well bolted together machines.
As long as you choose for AC motors or canmotors with momentum wheels (huge brass flywheels on the motor axles, which also improves drivability and is not available in truck mounted motors) you can't go wrong. Stay away from the small motors in the trucks, there is a solution for that, but it means that you have to tinker with it when it comes new out of the box.
As for sounds, I don't have a clue, since my first PS1 machine is somewhere between the US and Holland in an airplane..

[1688torpedo]

Hello Bobby & [#welcome] to the forum! Sounds like you already have a couple of decent Trains already. With that in mind, Read the other threads on this forum and you'll get a idea as to how to proceed with what you want to do with your trains and what to buy and collect.Don't overlook prewar trains as they are colorful and dependable as well.Just stay within your budget and buy the trains that you really like,Not what someone tells you to and never buy them as a investment as this is the worst possible thing to do in today's economy. Keep in mind that what is popular now may not be in 10-15 Years from now. Just buy them for your enjoyment. Have fun & take care.

[BobbyDing]

Wow...Thanks folks. Keep the info and opinions coming! With regard to track, I'm thinking of the more prototypical stuff in the inside of the layout and tubular around the outside (that magnatraction will help keep the kids from making them airborne). Since I have a bunch of tubular already, I'll have to decide then if I want to supply my own roadbed or go with the Fastrack type for the inside track. I'll start scanning the mags to see what kind of prices I'm looking at.

OK, Big question here (hold on to your seats). What's the benefit of DCC? I know this much...Sound/Speed/Direction/Light control at the touch of a button. Perhaps PC interfacing. Small portable handheld controllers. Anything else that I have missed? I'm a comp/elec tech, so I enjoy new technologies. But I (like most others) am on a very fixed allowance. I'm by no means decided, but Williams and older Lionel are looking good to me because of the price. I want to know exactly what I will loose in not doing the DCC (or any of the other flavors of DCC)?

Since I've already mentioned Williams, I'll continue with them. How is the sound in the Williams trains (whistles/horns)? Good as Lionel, but not as good as....??? Anybody have one or two they can tell me about?

I forgot to mention that I just bought the Polar Express set for my boys. Still in the box. But I suppose I'll get a chance to check out Lionel's Fastrack (or whatever they call it). I'll need to buy more cars. Not enough cars in the set.

Bobby

[Anonymous]

Welcome Bobby,

DCC is the command system used by the N, HO and G scale crowd. Unfortunately, the O-Guage manufacturers went their own ways. Lionel developed TMCC and has licensed it to 3rd Rail, Atlas, K-Line, Weaver and several others. MTH developed the DCS system (do not confuse this with DCC!) and so far, have not licensed it to anyone else.

If you are interested in computer control TAS has developed the LCS system for TMCC http://www.tastudios.com/LCS_Info/lcs.htm. The TMCC interface codes are available if you wi***o write your own computer control software. MTH has not released the interface codes for DCS so you cannot use computer control with DCS. Someone reversed engineered the DCS interface codes and MTH threatened to sue him if he published the codes.

Daniel Lang

[daan]

The sound in Williams engines are recordings which will play back at command. The horn is a set of sounds and is not depending on how long you pu***he horn button. That's a bit odd, since every hornsound is exactly the same sequence and the same length. It does sound good though, and the volume is also nice.
I'm not into radio control or multiple train control with electronics. Have some experience in h0 with Salota (analog multi train control) and the LENZ digital system used by Roco. The analoge multitrains system worked fine, but the LENZ digital had a lot of problems because the signals didn't match completely.
If you are a computer and electrician you could be able to get those things right though, but as I work also with industrial computers my guess is that they didn't go for the BUS system without any reason. Radio control based controlling is working fine in most cases, but you have to send& recieve a signal mostly without connections between the sender and reciever. That is a risk, since the reciever could alo recieve rest signals or inductive energy and see them as command.
Since both systems also accept conventional trains, you can always start with the digital thing when you want to.
MTH and Lionel also have systems which allow you to operate very different things with a conventional control, like all sorts of sounds, crewtalk, automatic uncoupling etc, simply by giving commands via the direction, whistle and bell buttons.
The big plus however with digital command is that there is constant power on the tracks, giving constant passenger car illumination, constant smoke, better sounds and keeps the layout very simple in wiring, since track segments and blocks are not needed anymore.
But you also don't have an operator panel with lights, switches and tracklayout to operate all the things and that is something I like to have.