Wiring help needed

[kolov]

I have been rewiring my old set of K-Line Heavyweights when I hit a roadblock.
I am trying to rewire the end car a "PRR Continential Hall - 100" I traced the wires that lead to a small circuit board that powers the marker lights and end sign. Well when I hooked them back up they shorted my small 40watt transformer that I use of my test track. There are four wires, green, white, orange and grey. I took it to a hobby shop and they were too busy in the Xmas Ru***o help. E-mailed K-line and have not got a response. Trial and error has got me a hot circuit board. Any ideas out there?

[Cthetrains]

look for any type of foreign matter, (dust, cob-webs, etc.) that may have allowed current to be mis-directed..and replace the board if possible, unless you can replace components yourself

[Anonymous]

It could have been that that last set of lights pulled the last fraction of a amp out of the tranny, causing a overload. Are these regular incandesants??

[kolov]

Thanks for the replys. I do not think it is a voltage problem because the car worked fine with the transformer before I rewired it. The car has regular incandescant bulbs, the marker lights I am unsure of what they are.
If somebody had a similar car and could see how they are wired that would be great.

Jerry could I e-mail you the photos of the board to see what you think?

[eZAK]

kolov,
I would be happy to take a look at any pics you might have.

Questions;
Why are you re-wiring these cars?
What does your rewire involve?
What year was your cars made?

The later K-line's use DC grain of wheat bulbs powered by a DC circuit.
I have a simular car that I plan on turning into a dinner.

Thanks

[kolov]

I rewired the cars because the original wiring kept coming undone on turns and in general was very cheapy done.

I replaced the wire with a better quality and higher gauge. (24 to 22 gauge stranded)
I replaced the bayonet bulb holders with Radioshack ones that are easier to connect and a few other improvements.
I think these cars were made in 1989.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

You really should use "SUPERFLEX" wire to the pickup rollers and trucks. Standard 22 gauge wire is often too stiff can bind the trucks and break off on the solder connections. Original wiring can usually be soldered back in place with good results.

Dale Hz

[kolov]

I am using some wire that I bought from Miniatronics and it is very flexible.
Every other car is on the track doing fine. This issue is a circuit issue.

[Anonymous]

Im trying to understand. There are 4 wires from the board. Does this exclude the wires from the pickup rollers and ground? Is the car bottom metal or plastic? Does it exclude the bayonette bulb? That shoud simply go to track voltage.

Dale Hz

[kolov]

I am trying to understand as well .
I wish I could post the pics but I do not have the ability.
The four bayonet bulbs are woking fine.
I have tried to test the wires from the board
idependently of them and have had no sucess.
I had traced the wires as grey being positive, orange ground, green ground
and white as positive. Well it did not work when I hooked them up that way.
I am willing to e-mail pics of the board to anyone who might be able to help.

I am beginning to think that two of the wires went directly to the pickups and two went to the four bayonet bulbs.

[wrmcclellan]

kolov,

e-mail me the photos at the link below. Hopefully you have a shot of the front and rear of the boards so I can try to see all the connections and components.

Regards,
Roy

[wrmcclellan]

Vince and I communicated off-line. Here are his photos and the circuit schematic I drew to get hs car going. He will try this out in the next day or so so wish him luck in getting his car lighting working again.









And here is a link to the MS Word doc with the schematic:

http://home.comcast.net/~roy.mcclellan/Photos/K-Line_Pass_Ckt.doc

Circuit explanation:

The full wave bridge rectifier (4 diodes in the square) turns the track AC into DC. Using an example of 12 volts AC applied to the track one gets about 12 volts DC at the outputs (-DC and +DC) of the rectifier. The two diodes across the marker lights clamp the marker light voltages to about 2 volts DC (this keeps them from getting a high voltage as track voltage is varied to keep these smaller bulbs cool and from burning out too soon). The remaining voltage (12 VDC minus the 2 volts DC, so about 10 VDC) goes to the overhead lights in the car.

1) Orange wire to pickup roller
2) Gray wire to truck body (track common/outside rail)
3) Green and White wires to the overhead lights in the car.

Hope it works. I told Vince that should he have a blown diode he could likely get a replacement at Radio Shack.

Wish him luck!
Roy

[Anonymous]

Roy

Thanks for the photo and explanation. I see 6 diodes. Are you saying 4 of those are configured as a bridge rectifier and then the other 2 are voltage droppers? In that case the overhead light voltage would be track voltage minus 3 volts DC and the marker lights would get about a volt and a half DC. The marker lights also would not work if the overhead bulbs(s) burned out.
I also cant identify what the 2 components are on the side by the black white wire from the picture. I have WebTV so I cant read the PDF.

Dale Hz

[wrmcclellan]

Dale,

I cannot see the diode P/N's. Generically they will drop from 1 to 1.5 volts as you suggest.

Regards,
Roy

[Anonymous]

Roy

Im not talking about the diodes. I cant identify the 2 components on the far left by the 2 sets of red and black wires. Thought this would be a nice circuit to use to add marker lights to older cabooses.ect.
Thanks
Dale Hz

[wrmcclellan]

The two silver things to the far left are apparently just solder terminals for the marker and drumhead lights.

[Anonymous]

Roy
Thankyou for your response.

Dale Hz

[kolov]

Partial Sucess.
All the lights come on dimly but the transformer cuts out as the power gets higher. I think that the board is damaged.

[Anonymous]

I think you can easily make another circuit with a bridge rectifier and 2 diodes or simply replace the diodes in the board. It is still possible it is not hooked up correctly.

Dale Hz

[Back2Trains]

Check all six of the diodes for shorts or opens. I would desolder and pull one end of each diode so as to not risk a false reading. This type of diode is very basic and can be easily checked with an volt-ohm meter (vom). Each diode should read very close to 0 ohms in one direction and a very high resistance in the other. If any give a 0 ohms reading in both directions they are shorted. If any give a high resistance reading in both directions they are open. If there is any question at all, replace all 6 of them. This type of diode is cheap and you should be able to get a 10 pack for just a few dollars.
Because the circuit is overloading the transformer and causing it to cut out, it sounds to me like you have a shorted diode, probably one of them in the bridge. If you find this to be true, replace all 4 of them in the bridge to be on the safe side.

[kolov]

I will be getting to this tonite but it may all be for moot because my PRR K-4 Pacific threw a rod this morning. No one got hurt and all the passengers were ok just a little shaken up. Since I can't see my PRR L-2 Mikado pulling the Broadway Limited the whole train may sit on a siding this year watching the freight go by!

[kolov]

No succes yet to report.

[kolov]

The K-Line PRR K-4 was given a temporary repair. Due to the K-Line sale /reorganizing no parts will be availible till next month. A bent piece of 18 gauge wire is acting a shim to keep a connecting road turning.

[kolov]

Solution to be on the way soon!

As it turns out it was probably a combination of a board that got fried and a need to wire the circuit properly. I replaced the diodes on the board and when Roy gets a chance he will hopefully post the proper way the board needs to be wired with the lamps.

[wrmcclellan]

Just to let everyone know, Vince got this working. I have provided a link to a Word doc that shows the final wiring configuration.

http://home.comcast.net/~roy.mcclellan/Photos/K-Line_Pass_Ckt_R5.doc

Regards,
Roy