beginner advice

[phillyreading]

Have you checked out Williams electric trains in O gauge, a lot of value for your money and better quality for the price than Lionel or MTH, not sure if they have starter sets.
www.williamstrains.com

[dougdagrump]

Before you make your final decision, although like the others I favor "O", try to visit some public displays or club displays if you can. It will give you a chance to gauge your son's reactions to the different scales and more importantly how each is operated, prototypical vs playtime.
Almost forgot, welcome and come back often.

[Anonymous]

Jim, go with 0 or 027. I have been runing them for 30 years. My dads Marx 027 from 1937 still runs well. Look at it this way-Lionel has been making trains for 100 years. Many of their trains still run great with a bit of oil after being stored away for 50. A couple of my engines from the early 50s still run like new and all they get is some oil and lamp changes. I bet there are very few HO that run after 50+ years. One of my buddies keeps telling me to switch to HO because they take up less room. Nothing beats a big old cast iron engine that weighs several pounds puffing along. One of my favorites is a postwar 681 that I got on ebay for about $80 w/0 tender. (I swap my other whistle tenders w/it) Google and look at a Lionel 681-you will see what I mean.
Hope this perspective helps
Tom

[fwright]

A route I am taking with my kids (age 11 and 9):

I have a fair amount of post war and MPC Lionel, particularly operating cars and accessories (my favorite part of 3 rail O!). I also have enough HO and a smattering of HOn3, mostly in kits that need building. I have a 4x8 table that used to have Lionel on it stored in the garage.

I have been given permission by the admiral (only made commander myself :-) ) to set up the 4x8 in a section of the basement. Have discussed track plans with the kids and have arrived at an outer oval linked to an inner O27 figure 8. In one corner and end will go the mountain and obligatory tunnel. On the mountain, I will install a small HO loop that will run on trestles and bridges over the other 2 sections. HO will have 15 in radius curves, and one spur.

Looking forward to seeing which trains the kids prefer and use. Each has been given a Athearn blue box kit of their choice from my father's collection that he is disposing of to assemble and use. Each child will also help in selecting which Lionel operating accessories to put on the layout (I have twice as many as will fit on a 4x8).

yours in training
Fred Wright

[Anonymous]

once again, all great input.
I do like pbjwilsons suggested Loinel "Yukon" set for all the lights sound. Looks like the O guage is the best starting point for us. Thanks again and Happy Holidays to all-

[pbjwilson]

Jim,
3 rail O and O-27 are kinda the same. The trains most of us on the forum run are based on the Lionels of old. The couplers are oversized and the flanges on the wheels are larger than true scaled models. All this is done so you can run the trains in a reduced amount of space and with reliable operation. True to scale O gauge that runs on 2 rail track needs very large radius turns and alot of space to run. O-27 actually refers to scaled down cars and locos that can run on a curve of 27" diameter, the standard starter set track. But to confuse you even more the track lionel now includes in their starter sets is 36" diameter.

In HO manufacturers and modelers stay very close to a scale representation of the real thing, or "prototype" railroad. It used to be that most cars for HO came in simple plastic kits that you glued together, and were very inexpensive. The trend now has gone to ready to run built up cars and locos. HO also is more of a modelers scale. A layout pretty much requires a train table of some sort, with the track secured to the table.

If you are looking for a train to run under the X-mas tree 3 rail O is a scale to run. The track can be layed on the floor and the trains "stay on track" much better than HO.

Hope that clears things up a little. We like helping out so ask as many questions as you like, good luck!

[brianel027]

Jim in Maryland, to add to what BigBoy said above...

In the past postwar era of the Lionel company, "027" was more of an economic designation of the product line. All of the trains are "0" gauge, meaning they will ALL run on the same track. All of the different 3-rail track types still have a gauge of 1-1/4 inches. The 027 trains tended to be smaller than the regular "0" trains that Lionel made and also tended to be more budget priced with more budget oriented contruction. This is still true today to some degree.

Given my experience promoting this hobby, I would strongly urge you to go with the bigger Lionel type trains versus HO. The biggter 3-rail trains certainly have more play value for young boys than do the more realistically sized HO trains.

But for your consideration, the 3-rail train hobby has grown by leaps and bounds in the past decade. Lionel is not your only choice: Williams, K-Line, MTH, Atlas and others all make trains and related products. In past years, folks would start with Lionel trains and then move to HO when they wanted more realism and scale proportioned trains. Today you can start off with more toylike 3-rail trains, and then gradually purchase much more detailed scale proportioned 3-rail trains. Some of the new scale proportioned trains being made today by MTH, K-Line and Lionel are awesome when compared to what has been made in the past.

Today, "027" is as much an economic designation as it is a size designation. Some of the newer more detailed scale sized trains will not manage the tight 27-inch diameter of the standard 027 track. But you can get 027 track in larger curve diameters, so this doesn't have to be a problem. Depending on how much money you want to spend, there are lots of decent train sets to choose from.

I personally think for the money, Lionel has the best selection of starter sets. For a little more money, K-Line offers some decent sets with their own type of track. And MTH probably has the best construction quality into their starter trains, although they are a little more pricey and do not come with as much in the set as does a Lionel or K-Line one.

Pick up some catalogs and see the variety that is made in 3-rail trains today. You just won't find the kinds of fun cars like dump cars, milk loaders, operating cars, etc. in HO that you will in 3-rail trains. Believe me, my 11-year old nephew recognizes the realism of HO trains, but I don't think he'd want to give up his Lionel Operating Helicopter Car, his K-Line Operating Barrel Loader or his MTH Operating Dump Car to have that realism.

Kids want to play and have fun. And actually so don't most adults though they might not admit it as freely. The larger Lionel types of trains will offer you all that kind of fun. And as you grow in the hobby, they can also offer you the realism that HO trains offer without have to build a whole new layout.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Jim, 027 means a couple of things. First it is a track style, with the sharpest curves available, they form a 27" diameter circle. Second it refers to trains that are proportioned smaller, though the key dimension, gauge (distance between the rails) is always the same. There are only a few models that cannot handle 027 track. The main reason this small handful of pieces won't work is they hit the motor housing on the switches.

There are so many different manufacturers these days, each making their own track, it can be mind boggling. I really think you need that field trip to the hobby store, to get a first hand look at the products.

The choice between O and HO, and what will be more interesting in 20 years is impossible to answer. There are so many factors involved in choosing scale, and people commonly switch at different stages in life. Then there those who can't choose, and end up doing more than one.

The only help I can offer you in this regard is to say that O is more play oriented, and HO is more detail oriented and leads into a modeling path.

Given the nature of your questions, I'm starting to lean toward recommending O, at least to start .

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone for all the input!
As I expected, the more I learn, the more questions I'll have. What's the difference between O 3 rail and O-27? Are there differences in track products and connections? What's the most veratile and interchangeable tracks?
Between HO and O, which will we be most happy with in 20 years

[pbjwilson]

Hi Jim,
I'll put in my two cents. First welcome aboard. Modelrailroading isa great hobby. Takes a long time to figure things out, but the journey is a fun one.

I have two boys 6 and 10 yrs old. I have purchased both HO and O-27 setsfor them. They like both andhave no problems putting trains on the track and running the trains. On a whole I think they enjoy the O-27 alittle more. They are more engaged with them. Smoke, lights, operating cars and accessories, etc. Alot of the O gauge trains have sound and those that don't are plenty loud too. I think thats one of the more enjoyable aspects of the larger trains is they are big, heavy, go clickity-clack, and for those of us whose sight is going, more visible.

A set I've been looking at recently is the Lionel Yukon Special. I think any kid would love it. Great colors, trainsounds, searchlight car, it's awesome. Just a suggestion.

Good luck - Happy Holidays!

Check it out -
http://www.lionel.com/products/catalogs/_CatImages/img_pg-20-21.jpg

[Big_Boy_4005]

When I was in the hobby business the recommended ages were:

O gauge 4 years and up
HO 8 years and up
N 12 and up

Nothing has really changed in this regard. Jim mentioned that his son was 7, and with a little help and supervision to start out, he should grow right into HO. This is why I don't rule it out as an option for him.

HO starter sets have come a long way from the Tyco and Bachmann throw away days. I believe Athearn and Atlas have packages available with quality HO engines and cars for beginners. Even if one doesn't find what they like pre packaged, a good hobby clerk can work with the customer to do a custom grouping.

I'm not trying to steer Jim (or anyone else who might be reading this topic) in a particular direction. I'm just trying to let him know there are options for his situation.

I've tried all the major scales, and if I wasn't in 3 rail O, I would probably be back in HO.

[:)]

[Anonymous]

I don't feel that HO is not appropriate for a 7 year old and the HO starter sets that are cheap are just that, cheap. Unless the child has extremely good hand/eye coordination they will get easily frustrated getting cars onto the track and coupling and uncoupling truck mounted horn hook couplers is problematic at best. HO doesn't support much in the way of operating cars or accessories either.

You can get some nice starter sets from Lionel or MTH that include a decent transformer and a loop of track for the price range you have stated. You may even be able to pick up basic sounds and/or action cars as well.

[Big_Boy_4005]

No offense to S gauge, but it is hardly starter set material based on selection and availability. HO is mainstream, and has the best selection of any scale. Quality starter sets are available if you shop a little and ask questions.

[Anonymous]

As others have said, a train store is the best place to get started(especially this close to the holidays). "Starter sets" are OK in O or O27, but stay away from them in HO or N due to quality. No use starting-off on the wrong foot.

[hugoroundhouse]

Just a voice from the "other" child-friendly gauge -- "S Gauge" It's large enough for a child's level of muscle control and yet smaller and more realistic than the O27. And it's on realistic 2 rail track. Lionel and it's knock-offs are easier to find and have many more options to choose from, but you'll also find many of the Christmas house more compatible with the 1/64-scale S gauage. I admit I'm prejudiced, I've been an American Flyer boy for fifty years now. At least consider S as you're shopping for your son. But most of all, have fun with him. They don't stay boys forever!!!

[hugoroundhouse]

Just a voice from the "other" child-friendly gauge -- "S Gauge" It's large enough for a child's level of muscle control and yet smaller and more realistic than the O27. And it's on realistic 2 rail track. Lionel and it's knock-offs are easier to find and have many more options to choose from, but you'll also find many of the Christmas house more compatible with the 1/64-scale S gauage. I admit I'm prejudiced, I've been an American Flyer boy for fifty years now. At least consider S as you're shopping for your son. But most of all, have fun with him. They don't stay boys forever!!!

[Big_Boy_4005]

Hi Jim [#welcome] to the forum. Given the age of your son, HO would be just fine. Rather than ebay for your first purchase, I would strongly recommend you visit a hobby store in your area. I'm not sure what part of the state you live in, but there are probably a number of good stores within an hour of where you live.

If you have your heart set on smoke and sounds (everything has lights) you may want to go with 3 rail O, like Lionel, K-line or MTH.

Either way a hobby store can show you a variety of starter sets, and will stand behind the product if you have trouble down the road. Ask lots of questions, that's what they are there for. I know, I used to work in a hobby store.

Save ebay for when you know exactly what you want.

[Anonymous]

Hey Jim!
I just joined and I am from Maryland too!!!

The guys helped me with a collecting question but i bet most
of them will tell you O or O27 Gauge. It would be my suggestion!
Lionel has been making it for a loooong time and there is plenty
of it out there through many manufacturers too! You can find it
pretty easily and i think it probably fits right in your budget!

The great thing is there is so much of it and you can even work your
way backwards into the older stuff if the newer stuff doesn't float your boat!

I personally prefer the older stuff but i have been looking at some
of the guys pictures of their christmas gardens and am beginning to think
it might be time for some newer pieces!!!

I guess I am partial as it is what I had and also what i bought my kids
when they were 5-6 for Christmas...lol!

It's great to watch the kids when they see toy trains!
Man, I miss that!

Good luck with your quest!

karl

[Anonymous]

Hello to all. I've always been fascinated with the world of model railroading, but never found the time (currently) or parents support (as a child) to explore this hobby. Now with a 7 year old who loves trains, I'm ready to get involved and live through his joy.
I could spend many hours exploring the internet myself, but I prefer to benefit from the vast experience of forums like this.
The bottom line is I would like for Santa to put a starter train set under the Xmas tree this year. I don't know anything about scale (HO is popular), quality, brands, etc.. This set should be expandable for many years to come as well as reliable. The budget will be around $250 to get started and probably purchased on ebay. Oh yeah, lights and smoke are very important at this age. Thanks for any advice. Jim in Maryland-