Chemical analysis of "Instant Cold Galvanize" (zinc product)

[fwright]

David

Nickel silver oxide does conduct - somewhat. Given that nickel silver is not a great conductor to begin with - way behind silver, copper, gold, brass - the conductivity of a heavy nickel silver oxidation may be too little to support the 4 amp draw of a dual motor 3 rail beast.

In marine use, the cold galvanizing sprays are considered jokes compared to hot dip glavanizing. I put them on the same level as a paint job with a rust inhibiting paint like Rust-Oleum (sp?). Perhaps, with decent maintenance OK in a fresh water environment, but never in salt water/air.

Which brings another thought. The PH and drainage of your soil is going to be a significant factor in the rate of rust, oxidation, and corrosion of the track especially. If I remember from my antenna design days, the East generally has low PH (fairly acidic) soils - great for antennas because of condcutivity, but hell on anything metal buried or coupled to it. Alaska seems to have the most neutral soil of all - things buried stay intact for hundreds of years - but that doesn't help you in Virginia. It just means a well-drained roadbed is more important to reducing your track maintenance workload than for somebody in the desert Southwest.

Given the realities of tremendously faster oxidation rates (aka rust on iron and steel) and UV degradation of plastic that will be encountered outside, I think it's safe to say that you will need a real and disciplined maintenance program to keep your equipment going - just like the prototype. Where possible steel and wood should be protected by paint and/or preservatives, just like the prototype. Regular replacement of items where corrosion, oxidation, and rot has taken its toll anyway will also be a requirement, just like the prototype.

Ideally you should paint or apply a protective coating to your wheel sets and rail - except the wheel treads and rail heads where frequent use can keep them from rusting. The ties will have to be replaced when they rot despite the preservative. Of course preservative and ballast that drains well will lengthen the life of your ties and track. Since, unlike the prototype, you need the rails to conduct electricity through the wheels, you will probably need to clean your rail heads every time it goes without use for 3-5 days.

I have seen articles on outdoor O scale, but I have never seen the maintenance issues seriously addressed.

Eagerly watching your grand experiment
Fred Wright

[FJ and G]

wasn't aware of n/s oxidation (usually brass is culprit). And, that n/s oxidation is non-conductive. Wish I'd paid more attention in chemistry class instead of goofing off.

I do have an ohm meter and I WILL be monitoring the situation.

FYI, my first outdoor trackage will be 99 feet (cost me $300 in rails), of Right O Way Atlas code 148. The 99 feet for $300 is actually 297 feet (3 X 99 ft of rail) b/c it's 3 rails. Interestingly, the larger size G-scale rails are actually less expensive and sold in 6 ft lengths. But O gives you twice the train length (sort of like the N scale for outdoors).

Marc Horowitz (sp?) who established Garden RR mag, CTT's sister, actually ran O scale (dual gauge) outdoors and the first layouts in England also used O, tho it was 2 rail.

This should be a great adventure and if the whole thing ends in disaster, it will have been a glorious learning experience. I've got a Conrail GG-1 diecast that I'm going to rebuild into a snowplow (b/c it's very heavy) for the upcoming winter snows (if we get snow, b/c some years we don't here).

I don't know about this zinc spray product. If it doesn't work, I'll just rip out the rails from the warehouse and try something else.

But if it works according to the label, it would be an exceptional product for anyone who has tubular trackage, including indoors.

[Anonymous]

david,

in my experience, such products are designed to create "a look" that appears to be an answer to your wish. it could just be the "paint" is to slow the rusting process, rather than the zinc itself.

i think electrical continuity will be the deciding factor here. i would get an ohm meter and check the before and after effects of your application. paint will keep it from rusting, but your trains may not go.

and, you should already know, the tin plating on your tin plate rails is there to serve the same purpose (zinc, tin, gold, etc. does not rust).

-rrick

[Anonymous]

I use atlas O gauge track the nickle silver kind. Here in southeast Texas the humidity is always high. Believe it or not Atlas nickle silver rails can (rust) oxidize. They turn green like the the statue of liberty. I tried lionel tubular and got terrible rust problems. I put some track and rolling stock outside and the same thing happened to me. I got rusty axles and wheels. Also any exposed iron screws on the rolling stock peice will also rust. You will have to apply paint to protect the screws. If you could truly galvanize the wheel sets then you would have protection. If you could find some non ferrous Stainless alxels and wheels they would never oxidize rust. The Zinc will conduct electricity very well. You should not have a problem there but if the wheels start to oxidize then you will lose some of the conductivity.Metal oxides typically do not conduct electricity well. I wish you luck because it is hard to run electric trains outside. Even on my layout which is climate controlled and inside I still have to ocasionally clean my atlas nickle silver track rails.

[FJ and G]

Bob,

I read but didn't notice about electrical properties; mostly warnings and I'm going to be coating it outside, but thanks.

Macaste,

Do you think there's a violation in truth in advertising by CRC? Perhaps it really is too good to be true (sort of like cold fusion). [:D]

[Anonymous]

I cannot believe it would stick to well to metals. From the MSDS it looks like the zinc dust is with the toluene and other hydro carbons. when you spray it on the zinc dust is carried with the toluene and propellants and sticks to the metal. The toluene is then evaporated and the zinc is left on the piece sprayed. The same thing happens when you use a spray paint can. The only problem is that the zinc dust is not soluble in toluene and paint is soluble in toluene. I don't think it will be very effective. Galvanizing is done at high temps and creates a good bond.

[lionelsoni]

http://e-barnett.com/MSDS/000045.pdf

[FJ and G]

During lunch I purchased at a hardware store a spray bottole of CRC "Instant Cold Galvanize."

The label reads: 95% pur zinc, dries in minutes, stops rust & corrosion.

Question: does this stuff conduct electricity and has anyone ever used this before? It might be a good product to seal and protect tubular track for layouts.

I purchased the product for a bit more novel of a project.

As some of you know, I'm building an outdoor 3-rail layout using nickle-silver rail. The cost is EXPENSIVE so inside a nearly 12 foot long, 3-tracked trainshed, I'm laying tubular rails that will be protected from rain.

However, since there likely will be more humidity than indoors, I needed to paint or coat the rails with something so I chose this product.

I'm BTW, running the rails as 2 rail O inside the warehouse (pictured below still under construction), as the shed is ONLY for rolling stock as I don[t want to risk placing the locomotives in the shed until I've had time to evaluate the effects of the weather in the shed on axles and wheels of the rolling stock.

In addition to spraying the rails with zinc, I'm also thinking of zincing the wheels and axles. Directions say can be sprayed on iron, steel and even pre-zinc'd metals and protects even when scratched. Too good to be true?

Your advice appreciated: